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CD8+ T-Cell Deficiency, Epstein-Barr Virus Infection, Vitamin D Deficiency, and Steps to Autoimmunit

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Omar88, Dec 25, 2012.

  1. Omar88

    Omar88 Senior Member

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    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3270541/

    Abstract

    CD8+ T-cell deficiency is a feature of many chronic autoimmune diseases, including multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis, systemic lupus erythematosus, Sjögren's syndrome, systemic sclerosis, dermatomyositis, primary biliary cirrhosis, primary sclerosing cholangitis, ulcerative colitis, Crohn's disease, psoriasis, vitiligo, bullous pemphigoid, alopecia areata, idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy, type 1 diabetes mellitus, Graves' disease, Hashimoto's thyroiditis, myasthenia gravis, IgA nephropathy, membranous nephropathy, and pernicious anaemia. It also occurs in healthy blood relatives of patients with autoimmune diseases, suggesting it is genetically determined. Here it is proposed that this CD8+ T-cell deficiency underlies the development of chronic autoimmune diseases by impairing CD8+ T-cell control of Epstein-Barr virus (EBV) infection, with the result that EBV-infected autoreactive B cells accumulate in the target organ where they produce pathogenic autoantibodies and provide costimulatory survival signals to autoreactive T cells which would otherwise die in the target organ by activation-induced apoptosis. Autoimmunity is postulated to evolve in the following steps: (1) CD8+ T-cell deficiency, (2) primary EBV infection, (3) decreased CD8+ T-cell control of EBV, (4) increased EBV load and increased anti-EBV antibodies, (5) EBV infection in the target organ, (6) clonal expansion of EBV-infected autoreactive B cells in the target organ, (7) infiltration of autoreactive T cells into the target organ, and (8) development of ectopic lymphoid follicles in the target organ. It is also proposed that deprivation of sunlight and vitamin D at higher latitudes facilitates the development of autoimmune diseases by aggravating the CD8+ T-cell deficiency and thereby further impairing control of EBV. The hypothesis makes predictions which can be tested, including the prevention and successful treatment of chronic autoimmune diseases by controlling EBV infection
    heapsreal likes this.
  2. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    The recent NK study in australia not only showed low nk function but also low cd8 function in cfs/me, although it didnt mention an outright defiency. My own experience was that my cd8 tcells are high and my nk function low, dont know cd8 function but im guessing the function was low as i was in the study??
  3. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    Here's an interesting bit from the paper.
    [my bolding]

    Sound familiar?
  4. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    heapsreal likes this.
  5. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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  6. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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  7. Lynne B

    Lynne B Senior Member

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    Thanks, Omar 88, for bringing our attention to this article. I think this is a really important study. It has the potential to link our disease with other autoimmune diseases, shows the mechanism responsible, and gives an idea of how to treat them. If I read the results of my previous blood tests correctly, I have the requisite low NK and CD8+ function levels, although I don't know about the other measures as I've lost my place in the article, so I'll have to work my way through it again, but I'm about ready to go back to my immunologist and ask for more tests if needed and also to discuss the idea of treatment. I'm particularly interested in the idea that low CD8+ measures can be found on a familial basis and am getting closer to suggesting to other members of my family with similar problems that they have the same tests.

    I was hoping other more informed members of Phoenix Rising would be discussing this article by now but I guess everyone has been focusing on family and Christmas this week. I hope it doesn't get buried and forgotten.

    Lynne B
  8. zoya

    zoya

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    Hi everyone, can you please help me to check my test results below as doctors say it is fine. I also wanted to see if I am th1 or the dominant. Can I see it from the results below?

    Total lymphocyte count 28% 1.4 (1.1-4)
    B cells
    CD20 total B cells 6%. 0.08 (0.06-0.6)


    T cells
    CD 56 Natural Killer Cells. 9%. 0.12 (0.07-0.6)
    CD3 mature T cells. 85%. 1.17 (0.8-2.4)
    CD4 T Helper cells. 52%. 0.71(0.5-1.6)
    CD8 T suppressor cells. 25%. 0.34(0.2-1)
    CD 4:8 ratio. 2.8(1-3.5)
  9. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    They look within range but only just, if anything abit low.
    Also these are just numbers if u can get a nk function test could be good.
    Look at further immune tests like immunoglobulin subglasses.
    Generally with high lymphocytes and subset(tcells) shows immune system is active and fighting something and if low then immune system tiring which could be your case.
    Immunovir could help improve your immune system.
    What infections have u tested positive for?
    I would look at doing another similar test in a few months time, maybe several times and see if a pattern occurrs. The numbers could change if infections reactivate etc too or be different if feeling better or worse.
    https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1QEmWar_CwKfWaHhpzamSWgEAjd2S44CTUTiJk9QIeY0
  10. zoya

    zoya

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    Hi Heapsreal, thanks very much for your response. I had tested positive for EBV, CMV,and Ross river fever virus(which is only in Australia) but antibodies not active doctor said. I am going to be checked for HHV-6 as well. I have some inflammation in my body and one of the test showed it, and it was written that low numbers of inflammation are usually Ankylosing spondylitis or some infection which my body is fighting on. I have lots of back problems and nerve inflammation in my back.

    In Australia they don't check for T cell subsets I was told, I only could get the test above.I really want to find out if I am TH1 or TH2 dominant, I really hoped that the test above will show. Because I have hashimoto and wanted to take supplements to balance one or other side.
  11. zoya

    zoya

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    Do my natural killer cell look low?
  12. zoya

    zoya

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    I just read about immunovir, and I don't think you can get it on Australia.would be interesting to try.
  13. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    U should be able to get a lymphocyte subset test at any pathology lab, its not really one of those tests thats a real specialty type thing and almost the same as the test results u posted. I think its because most gp's have no idea on how to read/understand them?? If u ask around u can get a lymphocyte function test but this is different to a nk function test which isnt avaiilable outside of research purposes.

    You cant get immunovir in australia but i buy it from overseas http://brandmedicines.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=746 a script isnt required but i have one from my doc. My recent order got opened by customs and they allowed it through and dint ask for any scripts etc.

    Dont believe that ebv/cmv arent active, they cant really tell all they can tell is that its not a new infection which doesnt mean its not an old infection reactivating. if u feel sick and your immune system looks run down then it just might be those viruses. Antivirals can help ebv/cmv but ross river can be tricky, immunovir may help with RR. Immunoglobulin therapy can be used for RR but will have a hard time finding a doc to treat u with that.

    Sometimes when thyroid meds are used they can exacerbate adrenal fatigue if its not treated first, cortisol and dhea testing can help but u will need an intergrative doc to help understand the tests. A low normal morning cortisol even though in range can be a sign of poor adrenal function and with low cortisol u will have increased inflammation. DHEA levels u want atleast in the middle of the normal range or upper 1/3 of the normal range, if in the lower 1/3 of normal range or out of range then this can also indicate adrenal fatigue. Its all needed for proper immune function and control of inflammation. ALso with thyroid issue u might benefit with armour thyroid which has both t3 and t4 hormones??

    TH2 dominant people generally have alot of allergies etc so that might help u tell if its an issue. Many just have a poor TH1 response which means going after viruses and probably a crappy Nk function.

    This is one of my favourite links, you may have seen it? https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1QEmWar_CwKfWaHhpzamSWgEAjd2S44CTUTiJk9QIeY0

    You live in North Qld?? could be hard to find docs up there i guess. I worked up that way 15 yrs ago.

    cheers!!
  14. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    This is SUCH an interesting paper. Thanks Omar.

    My mum had Crohn's disease when she was a teen. Almost killed her. So it sounds like I could have been born with this predisposition...

    Going to see KDM this month and will be having tests.
  15. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    heapsreal

    BTW, let me know if you try the Turkey Tail. I must admit I feel worse on beta glucan, which also enhance CD8+. But maybe the TT is more specific, I don't know. How do you react to beta glucan?
  16. In Vitro Infidelium

    In Vitro Infidelium Guest

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    A key point of the hypothesis is that CD8+ T-cell deficiency is measurable in both autoimmune active patients AND their healthy blood relatives - so the hypothesis is that people who go on to develop autoimmune disease have a genetic predisposition, which of itself is not enough to cause disease. Foods/supplements/preparations that boost CD8 in people who lack the genetic predispostion to autoimmune disease, may simply have no useful effect in those with the predisposition. The article you linked to overstates the relevance of the research as published - it was a preliminary study involving just eleven patients, and was designed to establish safety, there were no controls. The authors do say that: "Higher oral doses of Tv at 6 and 9 grams/day were associated with faster recovery of lymphocytes and NK cell activity, as well as increased numbers of CD8+T cells and CD19+ B cells" but of course this is in women who have undergone chemotherapy, surgery and radiotherapy, and any benefits from Tv treatment may only arise in patients who have had such extreme interventions. Phase 1 Clinical Trial of Trametes versicolor in Women with Breast Cancer http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3369477/

    IVI
  17. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    In Vitro Infidelium

    Right, I did not mean to imply that the study I quoted was the best research on the planet, or that Turkey Tail will cure anything. It is just an indication that it could help, and seeing as it is probably low risk, relatively inexpensive, and easily accessible it might be an option for some here to give it a whirl.

    There is plenty of research showing that beta glucan and AHCC enhance CD8+, but they also affect lots of others factors. Perhaps Turkey Tail is more specific towards CD8+, perhaps not; each of the mushrooms has different pharmacological profiles.

    But I see your point on the genetic issues, and how that might be show stopper. Do you happen to know of any SNPs involved?
  18. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Tell u the truth i havent used the natural immune stims as im using immunovir 2 months on and 1 month off, the 1 month off im using cycloferon. So i will just use those for now so i can judge how its working, if i add other immune stuff it will cloud my judgement of it?? It will probably be something i may use down the track. I still havent tried AHCC yet either. I suppose the immunovir is more certain and recommended by the guru's, i need that reassurance when i stop valcyte as its going to scare the crap out of me when i stop val, i really dont want to go backwards.
  19. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Ok, and yes you're right, you should probably not mix them. I am just thinking that since I react badly to the mushrooms (I guess by increasing inflammation), I would also react negatively to a pharmacological immune booster, but maybe that is wrong thinking.
  20. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Not always the case but cycloferon has more anti-inflammatory affects on the immune system. It stimulates alpha and beta interferon which are anti-inflammatory. Gamma interferron i believe increases inflammation but is not stimulated by cyclo. Now saying all that some people who tried cyclo felt like they gotan inflammatory response from cyclo. Myself i found i got an anti-inflammatory response and good decrease in inflammation going on in my head when i used cyclo. We are very different i suppose.
    http://portal1.democms.ru/resources/files/INSTRUCTION-for-Cycloferon-tablets.pdf

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