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CBT and GET can no longer be recommended for ME/CFS in Norway

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Tulip, Jul 3, 2011.

  1. Tulip

    Tulip Guest

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    Not sure if anyone else has posted this... it's a big win for Norway.

    http://esme-eu.com/news/cfs-me-know...and-care-services-in-norway-article493-7.html

    CFS/ME Knowledge summary, evaluation and recommendation for Ministry of Health and Care Services

    Many patients need services in an interaction between the primary- and specialist care. This interaction does unfortunately not function well enough today.

    The Directorate of Health has answered the mission from the Ministry of Health and Care Services with the following main conclusions and recommendations. The full answer can be read in the box to the right. (Translation of the full answer will be posted later.) Link to the reports from the Center of Knowledge will follow later.

    Main conclusions:

    It does not exist today a evidence based knowledge fundament to publish national guidelines or a general guide.
    With the background from the present reports, The Directorate of Health sees that it will still take time to build good, robust patient care for this group of patients.
    The knowledge review does not support an earlier recommendation made to use the NICE-criteria.
    The knowledge revies does not on a general level give support for recommending graded exercise therapy and/or cognitive therapy to everybody with CFS/ME.



    Recommendations:


    The knowledge review of Kenny De Meirleirs research makes that the Directorate of Health, on the basis of todays knowledge, can not recommend that the public health sector finances this kind of treatment.
    It is recommended that one identifies ongoing studies and makes a summary about existing studies regarding causality and diagnostics.
    New research projects and recommendations about interventions must be seen in regard to the severity of the disease; mild moderate severe or very severe, and in what phase of the disease the patient is; unstable phase of stabilisation phase of rehabilitation/(reconstruction).
    An increase in funding for research on causality and treatment is recommended.
    Collection and dissemination of experience-based knowledge will be facilitated amongst other things through regional conferences of experience.
    The creation of a national treatment-/competence-service for CFS/ME for a limited time is considerated.
    The biobank at Oslo University Hospital Aker will be closely related to the national service.
    It is recommended that ambulant/outpatient-teams is being created for children, youth and adults in all health regions.
    It is recommended that an effort is started to develop good models for how kids as relatives/next of kin should be given follow-up.
    It is recommended regional polyclinic for CFS/ME.
    It is recommended rehabilitation services built on the experiences and competence from amongst others Slvskottberget.
    It is recommended regional Learning- and coping-courses for patients and next of kin.
    It is recommended to extend the national Information Telephone Service for CFS/ME.
  2. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    FREEEEDOOOOOOOM!!! :victory: :victory: :victory:
    The first broadside up the arses of the biggoted, corrupt and soon-to-be damned conspiracy to deny us compassion, medical aid and research.
    Take that, ya bastards!! *he says in most vitriolic Scottish inflective imaginable* :thumbsup:

    See, this is a European nation telling the Weasels to F*** OFF!
    Meaning, their smug self-assurance and lack of adversaries with serious political clout has been given a hard rebuttal, because folk can now say
    "Oh but the Norwegians have said yer full of SHYTE! So your NEXT, ass clown, so get with the program or be counted on the side of the ones being wrung out to dry when the merde hits the proverbial wind propellor!"

    1) Sorry for language but stuff it: taste the finger, Weasels!! ,!,, Muhaha!! :D
    The worm is turning and am LUVIN IT!

    2)What has been done ot us is a Crime Against Humanity, it goes WAY beyond any reasonable "screw up" into actual conspiracy, because after a point it doesn't matter whether they are doing it to:
    protect the insurance company profits; save government money; protecting the vaccine industry; or just because they are compassionless pyschopaths or cold, diabolically evil.
    Deliberate refusal and conspiracy to treat millions of sick people is genocide. Failing to treat HIV because of bigotry is genocide, failing to treat people in such huge amounts because of their race creed or colour and letting them die is genocide.
    I believe in forgiving the repentant sinner, 'cause we all screw up and forgiveness is healing, but also believe in cornholing the ones who don't repent with a pine cone soaked in chili sauce! :Retro tongue:

    3) Call me petty, smallminded, whatever, but the thought of seeing some folk losing their medical licences, being banned from entering Norway etc etc in the not so distant future tickles me pink, buhaha!

    4) And maybe the poor berks in Norway who've got this awful illness, will get help without interference from ARSEHOLES!

    5) Yes I know Countess of Marr and some others have tried...but not been able to accomplish much because they lack enough political clout and the vile machinations of our very corrupt Westminster government who'rein bed with the pahamaceutical, insurance and other corproations.
    This development, as said, is different, as it's a naitonal government policy tha tthe psychs are WRONG and NOT to trusted.
    A line has been drawn in the sand: eat craw, Weasels!

    [video=youtube;MRa002nTSwk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRa002nTSwk&feature=related[/video]
  3. Tulip

    Tulip Guest

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    If somehow a miracle can happen and the UK can change it's position and get rid of CBT and GET, then it would flow on to all other countries including Australia who is a sheep the the wessely school :rolleyes: Maybe wills and kate would be interested? lol.

    I keep praying that the day will soon come that simon wessely is thrown in gaol for his horrendous medical crimes and that there will be compensation for the families who have lost a family member to ME/CFS, and to all long term sufferers who have suffered irrepairable damage to our bodies, namely our hearts.
  4. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Great to see - could teach us much (an old friend there diagnosed me 11 years go when all here knew nothing). The Norway Assoc have been working on all fronts - gov, medics, media, psychos etc for more than 11 years now and never gave up. Personal friend runs working with very best researchers and medics so hoping this will make some impression on the idiots here at last.
  5. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    For someone with no understanding of Norway's medical system, can someone explain slightly more about what this means? Is there a government website with the changed guidelines? Ta.
  6. max

    max *****

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    I don't have a clue how the Vikings do things either - but, I do know the shrinks have a stranglehold over the UK based medical regimes (especially the MRC) - so, I will join Silverblade in rejoicing at this sliver of hope that the shrinks and all who finance them will be exposed as the fakes that they are.

    My opinion, for what it is worth, following personal experience in dealing with the shrinks that hide behind a banner of medicine and science, is that they are right up there with bankers - they inflict misery and pain on human beings whilst getting rich(er).

    So, just for today, I care not what or how Norway conducts its medical service, this piece of news gives me hope.
  7. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Hi max, I don't agree about bankers. Bankers have a mandate to make and save money, to screw everybody else over for the profit of their shareholders and every other stakeholder in the banks. They also do good things for the economy, when they don't screw up.

    The problem is those who follow the CBT/GET model for ME/CFS have a mandate to help people, treat them, give them good advice, cure them - and to stay up to date with the latest reserarch. They fail on all counts for the most part. About the best I can say about them is they might be able to fulfil their mandate in some other field - but I think that might be just exporting the misery to somewhere else. They need to abandon the biopsychosocial model and realize that CBT and GET just tools to assist patients cope with illness, not cures.

    On a downside, while I have read the Norway info elsewhere (not PR) it does not mean things have completely turned around. What it does mean is that at least one government institution has looked at most of the evidence instead of a select and biased subset. It is way past time, and we might like to look more closely to see how it was done.

    Is anyone who is closely associated with Norwegian advocacy able to comment?

    Bye
    Alex
    justinreilly likes this.
  8. lucy

    lucy Senior Member

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    I have always had an impression that Scandinavians are very respectfull towards the patient, regardless of the type of illness - physical or psychological. I spend some time studying there, and realized that society is much better educated about depression and have more effective in care in this matter.

    Then my logics is - by knowing psychological illnesses well, they know ME/CFS is different :)

    Regarding their research potential and attitudes, these countries have higher probability to do some important work in this field.
  9. max

    max *****

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    Hi alex -
    "Bankers have a mandate to make and save money, to screw everybody else over for the profit of their shareholders and every other stakeholder in the banks. They also do good things for the economy, when they don't screw up."


    That made me laugh so much - thanks - do good things for the economy - he he he, see, I'm still laughing.

    Banks merely oil the wheels of business to make ever more profits - if the 'economy' benefits, that is a bonus - banks exist to syphon wealth from the many to the few - nothing more.

    Anyway - go Norway !
  10. ixchelkali

    ixchelkali Senior Member

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    Long Beach, CA
    :thumbsup: Go Norway!

    Yesssss!
  11. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    NYC (& RI)
    Excellent. This seems to be a first- a government agency essentially saying the Wessely School are producing fake science. Yay!!
  12. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    Along with the other stuff that's come to light (Camelford, mobile phones being dangerous despite what was said, PTSD in Afghanistan being worse than claimed)...maybe just maybe, they're own crap is gonna bite them back in the ass ;)
  13. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Sth Australia
    Thank you to those out there (who ever you are) who have fought to make sure that the Norway health system is trying to look at things in a real "evidence based" way, without biased.

    Hopefully other countries will pay attention to this and relook and review their current ME/CFS policies.

    "It does not exist today a evidence based knowledge fundament to publish national guidelines or a general guide."

    I thought that was very wise that was said and wise suggested more research to solve all this.

    ..............

    So many great recommendations there :)
  14. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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    yes, thank you to those who have worked to make this happen, and to those who were fair enough to take a balanced look

    may everyone, everywhere, follow Norway's example in concluding NICE unfit as a guide to caring for those with ME/CFS, and GET and CBT unfit as universal therapies for those with a CFS label
  15. viota

    viota

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    im so glad this has happened My doc and nurse have tried to convince me that get works and i should do it but i refused.
    justinreilly likes this.
  16. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    G.E.T. is modern day exorcism!
    Complete useless evil load of bollocks and has NOTHING to do with Science or the safety of the patient
    Those who use it on ME patients should got to jail for the abuse as if any harm occurs ot the patient (which is almsot inevitable with ME and forcing exercise!), charges of Actual Bodily Harm or Manslaughter should be brought

    (*) as death is a possible outcome due to POTS and similar
    justinreilly likes this.
  17. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Hi SilverbladeTE, CBT/GET as exorcism is kind of the point I made in my blog:

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/entry.php?965-Evil-Spirit-Therapy-for-CFS-a-satirical-chant.

    This resembles a religious process, protected zealously, and the mountains of contrary evidence are deliberately ignored, although I do concede that many to most doctors are so busy they feel they don't have the time to properly investigate and so take these claims at face value.

    Bye
    Alex
    justinreilly likes this.
  18. max

    max *****

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    I wrote to Mr White a few months ago and asked him if it was the case that my far superior better half (25% group member) was forced to undergo his recommended treatment, then could he give her his personal assurance that she would come to no harm?







    ..... as yet ...... no reply ........... is that a "no" then?
    Not even the "no comment" which is the words I seem be getting used to from the MRC.


    Nowt.



    max
  19. max

    max *****

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    Almost forgot


    Go Norway!
  20. currer

    currer Senior Member

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    This is most encouraging - I have worried that pressure would be brought to bear on Norway to acquiesce in the grand plan to make us invisible!

    I am glad to see them standing firm.

    Next we should all apply for political asylum in Norway on the grounds of infringements of our human rights in our countries of origin.

    We will be medical refugees.

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