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CBS and sulfur (sulfates), truly an issue?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by crzyakta, Jan 2, 2016.

  1. crzyakta

    crzyakta

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    Northeast US
    Hi All,

    I've been treating my MTRR++ with mB12 for almost 2 months now, first at 1mg 2x daily using the Source Naturals and for the last 3 weeks, 5mg 1x daily from Jarrow. I noticed benefits with the SN 2mg daily, however when I started Jarrow not so much, perhaps I peaked or maybe because I added 800mcg quatrefolic as well?

    Well my question is this, I have 2 CBS gene heterozygous mutations (see below), and have been reading all the concern about sulfur in foods. I have also read conflicting views from folks whom do not agree with Yasko's approach to the subject. Thus far, I have yet to see anyone have marked improvements of symptoms from avoiding sulfates, perhaps sulfites but nothing beyond scoring lower on the urine strip tests. Any assistance with the questions below are are much appreciated!

    1. Is sulfur and more specifically sulfates really a problem?
    2. How can you tell if you are up-regulated or down-regulated?
    3. Will the addition of molybdenum allow one to consume more sulfur containing foods and/or take Epsom salt baths?
    4. What are symptoms of sulfur sensitivities?
    5. What are symptoms of excess ammonia? Best and most affordable way to test for it?

    I will note this, if I eat too much animal protein, especially cheese or canned tuna/salmon, I get cystic acne, usually in odd places, like the back of my neck, the nape area. However, this could just be attributed to excess histamine in diet, as I do have all the symptoms of a histadelic

    My SNPs from Genetic Genie:

    Here are your homozygous mutations as indicated in your SNP gene table above (not including MTHFR):

    VDR Taq
    MTRR A66G

    Here are your heterozygous mutations as indicated in your SNP gene table above (not including MTHFR):
    COMT V158M
    COMT H62H
    MTR A2756G
    BHMT-02
    AHCY-01
    AHCY-19
    CBS C699T
    CBS A360A

    Thank you all for your time and dedication!
     
  2. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    Sulfur was, and is, a problem for me. Initially I discovered it was contributing to my facial outbreak. Later the symptoms were more of high ammonia: squinty eyes, brain fog, breathing issues.

    Molybd helps. I tried significantly larger doses of molybd for awhile, but it didn't make enough of a difference for me to continue. More info re dealing w/ ammonia here .

    I used sulfate strips for awhile, they never showed me anything useful. Showed me as next to lowest, but I still had symptoms. I treat according to symptoms and use self-testing to determine doses. good luck.
     
    bertiedog and xrayspex like this.
  3. crzyakta

    crzyakta

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    Northeast US
    Regarding your facial outbreaks, are you talking about acne? If so, was it cystic or just tiny postules? Regarding squinty eyes, not sure what that is referring to, I assume that means your vision was getting blurry so you would squint to see better?

    Also, regardiong the test strips showing low, did you test for sulfites or sulfates? Do you think it was showing low because your body was retaining the sulfur and not excreting it?

    I will look into your ammonia link.

    Thanks ahmo!
     
  4. xrayspex

    xrayspex Senior Member

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    u.s.a.
    ahmo is there a diet you follow that helps you with sulphur? I didn't get the test to find out if I have some genetic intolerance I just noticed I feel terrible every time have sulfur related things like eggs and garlic so do much better when avoid
    Rich V had rec'd molybdenum and I take that once in the while

    I peeked at your amonia link you supplied, looks good
    reminds me I ruined my day awhile back when tried l-glutamine again, terrible

    I only noticed these things since I got older.....

    also I wonder about safety of molybdenum...isn't it used in making batteries or something?
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2016
  5. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    No. closer to rosacea.

    Not blurred vision. I've never gotten a better description. It's a feeling of things closing down. The squinting is not exactly to keep out light, but something involuntary that happens. This has been a prominent symptom for me of both ammonia and peroxynitrite. Once I'd done everything I could to eliminate sources of ammonia, I interpreted the lower intensity of the recurring symptoms as peroxynitrite, and use antioxidants to keep them as minimal as possible.

    Sulfates.I don't know the answer to your question.

    I'm on a minimal GAPS diet. I eat 50g meat twice a day, and this is fine. My body also does not like eggs. I don't even bother to try onions. Once in awhile I'll self-test + for garlic, but it seems like less than once a week. And I've given up all green veg, so no worries about all the high thiol veggies.

    Well, you can probably find industrial uses of many minerals.Molybdenum is very helpful for me. I'm taking 450mcg twice/day. I increased it for awhile, following someone's suggestion that more would help w/ sulfur. But idt didn't change things, so I returned to the lower dose.

    This is an excellent conversation about ammonia. http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/new-inexpensive-cbs-ammonia-fix.31835/#post-496986

    other comments by aaron_c
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...nd-sulfites-the-boron-fix-for-sulfites.39025/

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/b2-i-love-you.15209/page-42#post-533217
    including the following:
    A pretty comprehensive page: http://www.gestaltreality.com/2013/07/23/anxiety-ammonia-the-nmda-receptor/
     
    Jennifer J and xrayspex like this.
  6. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    No, not based on CBS status. CBS C699T +/- would be a very tiny up-regulation, which has been shown to have mildly beneficial effects. The confusion arises because Yasko claimed it was a 10-15x up-regulation, which is absurd and completely contradicted by the available research. There's no research showing any risk from any version of CBS A360A.

    Based on SNP data, you can tell from reading the research into those SNPs. There are some very mild CBS upregulations, but the only problematic CBS mutations involve serious down-regulations.

    To the best of my knowledge, there are no sulfite or sulfate strips intended for human or medical usage. They are designed for industrial use in water supplies, and pH can have a big impact on the results shown on the strips, so I don't think it's possible to determine anything useful from them.
     
  7. crzyakta

    crzyakta

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    Northeast US
    Hi Valentijn,

    For argument sake and to be empathetic towards Yasko's approach, why do you think she made this 10x-15x claim and why do you strongly disagree with it?

    The following are the mutations which I believe affect sulfur and ammonia within the body, all of which are heterozygous. Based on these, do you think I may have an issue with sulfur consumption or excess ammonia production? I do not feel any different after eating onions or garlic, consume quite a bit of organic dairy, a ton of organic kale and other dark greens. The one thing I will say, eating boiled eggs can make me a bit tired, but scrambled or omelettes do no seem to cause any issue. If I eat garlic, I may pass garlic smelling gas.

    BHMT-02 rs567754 CT +/-
    BHMT-08 rs651852 CC -/-
    AHCY-01 rs819147 CT +/-
    AHCY-19 rs819171 CT +/-
    CBS C699T rs234706 AG +/-
    CBS A360A rs1801181 AG +/-

    Thanks!
     
  8. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    The relevant discussion starts at http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/couple-of-questions.22718/#post-347503

    Basically Yasko somehow equated a common variation with the effects of chopping off half of the CBS gene in an engineered lab yeast. The actual research into CBS C699T shows that it is a very mild and beneficial upregulation. There is no research showing CBS A360A to have any impact at all.
    Your belief is contradicted by the scientific evidence.
    No, those SNPs are not capable of causing appreciable alterations to the functioning of the CBS enzyme. It does not mean that you don't have symptoms, it simply means that such a connection has been disproven. Also keep in mind that those CBS variations are exceedingly common. Far, far more common than any presumed sulfur problems.
     
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