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Cannot tolerate oral B12 – causes shortness of breath and tachycardia. Why?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by LynnJ, Mar 12, 2014.

  1. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    @LynnJ: start with about 2500mcg AdB12. See how that does you. Work up or down from there. I got a big boost from AdB12 immediately. Hope you have the same response.

    Doesn't matter if you take adb12 and mb12 at the same time. They're fine together.

    I don't think it matters if you take sublingual B12 on empty stomach or not. It diffuses into the tissues. You shouldn't be swallowing your B12's at all (either form). Most of it will get wasted in your stomach acid that way.

    Both adb12 and mb12 should be taken between cheek and gums and held for at least an hour.

    I take my folate with a little food but not much. I read it's better on a more empty stomach but completely empty isn't necessary. I actually take it with a glass of milk but realize not everyone can drink milk. My point is that folate should probably be taken with a very light snack.

    Jarrow changed within the last year or two.
  2. LynnJ

    LynnJ

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    Okay, I THOUGHT it didn't matter when you're using sublingual B12, but I kept being told (on another forum) never to take it with food, and I was like...wait, what? Why does it matter?

    It'll be interesting to see how my shortness of breath is with this new methylB12 and AdB12. Hopefully I can tolerate the potassium citrate. I've noticed a few people here take very large doses of potassium to combat B12 symptoms, so I guess it'll require some experimentation.
  3. LynnJ

    LynnJ

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    Something I forgot to ask (and didn't find with the search function) - what do people here consider to be the ideal potassium level (mmoI/L)? The lab at my clinic says the normal range is 3.4 - 5.1, but I don't know if potassium is like B12 in that the "normal" range here in the US is far too low.

    I bought Potassium Citrate pills, btw... Hope that's okay. I know some people here say potassium pills aren't great, but I couldn't find any Now Foods Potassium Citrate powder. In fact, there didn't seem to be more than one brand of powder for that form of potassium on Amazon.com...
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2014
  4. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    'Now' sells a Potassium Chloride as crystals, but they need to be put in empty capsules, as the chloride is kind of strong. But it helps if one is low in stomach acid, and it's a lot cheaper than potassium citrate capsules.
  5. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    p.s. I haven't found it necessary to hold the b12 under the tongue or in the mouth for a specific amount of time, but everyone's different. :)
  6. LynnJ

    LynnJ

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    I can't take Potassium Chloride. It irritates one of my other health conditions and results in pelvic pain.
  7. LynnJ

    LynnJ

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    Forgot to ask - do you just chew your B12 then, dannybex?
  8. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    LOL, my experience is the opposite of dannybex.

    Potassium pills are what irritate my stomach. They really make my stomach hurt. I theorize that this is because with potassium in capsules my stomach contents have to do the diffusing of the potassium prior to digestion. Basically, the capsule hit my stomach and they sit there until dissolved, when all that potassium sits there in one little area, heavily irritating a relatively small area of the stomach lining. I messed up my stomach fairly badly with potassium pills, when I was doing a low carb diet. I had problems for quite a while even after I stopped taking the pills.

    But when I take potassium powder in juice it doesn't hurt my stomach at all. I theorize this is because the highly irritating potassium is already dilute and diffused over a larger stomach area when taken with liquid, thereby reducing irritation.

    You could probably also take potassium powder in water, but it tastes pretty nasty so something with flavor is a better option.

    Also, I get no benefit from B12 lozenges when I don't hold it in my mouth like Freddd says, for at least 45 minutes. If I chew them up I might as well be throwing my money down the drain.

    But again, everyone is different. Just my $0.02.
  9. LynnJ

    LynnJ

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    Something I'm still very confused about despite doing a lot of reading here: how much of the Solgar Metafolin should I be taking, assuming I take between 5000mcg-10,000mcg of methyl B12?

    I saw on one post a recommendation of 800mcg, while in another thread someone said they recommend at least 7500mcg.

    Everyone has different needs, but I just don't quite understand how much I should take.
  10. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    @LynnJ: I'm not an expert here, but I don't worry about ratios and I do fine. Whatever B12 you don't use gets excreted in your urine. Freddd said somewhere (not sure where now, don't have time to look) that as little as 100mcg *in the cells* is enough to work with whatever amount of metafolin. That means you have to take much more sublingual dosage (at least 1000mcg and I think more) to get even that little bit into your tissues and cells, however.

    My opinion is it's better to have too much B12 than too little. Too much and the worst thing that can happen is you're wasting little bit of money by peeing excess vitamin into the toilet.

    However, too little and it won't get methylation going properly or allow methylfolate to do its job properly, etc. This can cause all kinds of unpleasant sides.

    My advice it to go on your symptoms. Hard, I know. But it does get easier if you keep reading and keep taking the stuff. :)

    If there is a truly recommended ratio and someone here knows about it, I hope they chime in. I'd be interested.
  11. LynnJ

    LynnJ

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    Oh, it's not the B12 I'm worrying about so much. It's the Metafolin.
  12. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    Okay. I just assumed that because the title of the thread indicates that B12 was an issue in the past that increasing it (rather than metafolin) was the concern. Wish I could help more but really can't. :(
  13. musicchick581

    musicchick581 Senior Member

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    I've had the serious anxiety, breathing issues the last two days (high pollen count) and when it's high, it seems worse but I'm still having issues I think with the Methylcobalmin 600 mcg and the methylfolate 900 mcg. I worked up from a smaller dose to that. I do have MAO homozygous too so I get the anxiety but I feel really out of it and dizzy all the time lately and it used to be only when I'd get daily panic attacks. This is lasting all day now.

    I'm considering adenosyl and hydroxycobalmin instead or in addition to methyl. I am hetero for Comt158 and VDRtaq so Yasko says adenosyl and hydroxy but I'm not 100% convinced my body will convert it, how will I know, and my doc doesn't know anything about adenoxyl and said to just experiment with hydroxy if I want. That leaves me scratching my head about dosage sizes. I can't tolerate a high methylcobalmin I know from my crazy in the head -out of body feeling when I tried to increase too quickly. I don't have CFS but have been exhausted lately. (possibly pollen again)

    Can you guys give me a general idea of what dosages to take? I'm compound hetero MTHFR 677 and 1298.
    Adenosyl doesn't make up for methyl because they do different things, I read.
  14. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    I would take at least half your mb12 dose in folate, and perhaps even more. So for 5mg of mb12 I would take at least 2400mcg folate, but you could go as high as twice your mb12 dose if needed. If the doses of the two go too far apart, you can run into trouble.
  15. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @LynnJ I asked the same question of Freddd months ago re folate dosage. I just couldn't understand what dose to shoot for. He suggested increasing 100-200mcg folate every 1-2 days. I adopted this, and it's worked for me. As I say below, I increase based on my small range of symptoms, and increase B12 to meet the folate. Once I started this gradual increase things progressed. I couldn't have imagined at that time, taking about 800mcg, that I'd end up being on the high side of the dosing. I'm currently taking about 19mg Mfolate, 22mg MB12, 10mg AdB12. The folate and B12 are in 3 divided doses, AdB12 single dose w/ AM MB12.

    @musicchick581 I tried hydroxy several times, it was always useless for me. It's possible your anxiety, breathing issues are due to low potassium.

    MAO means susceptibility to histamines. In addition to the pollen, sometimes increasing folate, B12 can increase histamines. I've found a number of supps that have bee v effective anti-histamines: quercetin, rutin, royal jelly, mangosteen. My body seems to prefer the rutin and royal jelly over the quercetin. I only added mangosteen yesterday, seems like this might replace both quercetin and rutin.

    Dosages are really symptom-dependent. Not only for the main reason you're on the protocol, but directly related to epithelial, skin issues. There's not a specific ratio, it's very personal. It took me a very long time to come to terms with this. Initially I lost huge amounts of hair from both too much B12 and folate, when I was raising them independently, without keeping them in some sort of relationship. Now, my main sign that I need to increase folate is hair loss, acne on face, and now rarely, scabs on head. Hair loss can occur from one part of the day to another. I raise the folate, and the symptoms stop. I increase my B12 by self-testing. Or when increasing the folate gives me symptoms: hyper, weepy eyes, itchy. You really have to commit to paying close attention to your body. cheers, ahmo
  16. musicchick581

    musicchick581 Senior Member

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    @ahmo I thought that DAO was susceptibility to histamine? I was allergy tested twice and had none but I do get reactions to seasonal allergies and congested all year. It's gone down quite a bit since I took out foods that I had sensitivity tested positive to. I used to use mangosteen and quercitin. Quercitin helped a bit but not mangosteen and it was expensive.
    Do you know if MAO and DAO homozygous can be related to histamine intolerance? Histamine intolerance is a relatively new idea but the studies I've found on DAO and histamine were only two. I wonder if supplementing with DAO enzyme will help take care of histamine or histamine intolerance in food?

    My anxiety and focusing, hyperventilating, etc. that comes with anxiety and panic have been terrible today and yesterday. Like, I'm dizzy all day and have trouble breathing in. It stinks and I want an end to it. It's been 7 years of this daily but it wasn't as often and now it's all the time again.
  17. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @musicchick581 Sorry, I don't know the relationship betw DAO and MAO. I'd thought the DAO enzyme was secondary to MAO defect. In any case, my understanding is that DAO enzymes work just for the food you're eating. I don't eat histaminic foods, so I've never looked further into it. MAO homozygous is certainly related to histamine intolerance. I've found that when I'm actively detoxxing I release a lot of histamines, need to increase my supps.

    What are you eating? Glutamate also causes anxiety, headaches. Also, I'd been into full on anxiety and panic attacks for a year when I stopped gluten. My nervous system calmed by day 3. I'm linking some histamine sites. cheers, ahmo

    http://thelowhistaminechef.com/wondering-why-you-react-to-everything-you-eat/
    The Many Faces of Histamine Intolerance http://healthypixels.com/?p=1044
    https://www.evernote.com/pub/pcguys/histamines
    http://roosclues.blogspot.com.au/2010/03/overview-of-high-histamine-also-called.html
    http://peelingbacktheonionlayers.com/could-histamine-be-sabotaging-your-digestive-health/
  18. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    @musicchick581,
    Copper biounavailability might be worth looking into. Copper is needed for adequate DAO, and I saw a link to MAO, too, although I can't remember what it is.
  19. musicchick581

    musicchick581 Senior Member

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    @ahmo -I'm eating about 12 foods or so right now including a handful of green veggies, carrots, coconut, sunflower seeds, chicken, fish but not salmon, sweet potatoes, apples and pears. That's about all I'm eating for the last two months. Low histamine, low acid (I have LPR reflux and throat spasms). I don't believe I'm eating glutamates. I am not eating gluten, dairy (lactose intolerant), yeast, grains and had to stop several other foods because of sensitivity on the Alletess IgG test. I get bloated and gain weight on any of those things I listed.
    Thank you for the sites!

    @Violeta -thank you! I will ask my doctor about copper.
  20. LynnJ

    LynnJ

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    Dang. So I should be taking 5000mcg of folate....

    What kind of trouble? Are there any specific symptoms I should be on the lookout for?

    The potassium symptoms I'm well aware of. Folate, not so much.

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