Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by knackers323, Jun 30, 2014.
Has anyone heard about the supposed results people are getting with cannabis oil?
@knackers323 Yes, and I'm using CBD drops and tinctured medical cannabis varieties for pain, insomnia, muscle spasms and who knows what else since the research on the other cannabinoids is scarce. I live in Colorado where medical and recreational cannabis are now legal. Colorado has pledged $10 million in tax revenue to research on the medical uses, and downsides, of medical cannabis. I wish some researcher(s) into ME would apply and do that kind of research. I was doctor-certified on my fibromyalgia and that doctor was open minded about its application to ME but the law here doesn't include ME as one of the conditions that can be treated with medical cannabis. I see the research potential to both find treatment(s) for us, and to help publicize the existence of ME.
Here's an interesting link: http://www.rxmarijuana.com/index2.htm This is a doctor who prescribes cannabis and has some research on his site.
Also see: Granny Crow's List http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=kSVoGjvvIFXEBOePOdlB8w&bvm=bv.69837884,d.aWw
Or just Google Granny Crow's List
It's a 1000-page PDF of research and anecdotes from around the world.
Another thing: I have pigmented, raised, rough lesions on my skin. I tried an experiment. I put a little CBD drops on the ones on one side of my face and left the other side alone. After about a month the ones on the treated side had disappeared and the untreated ones are still there. The pigmentation in still there but the rough, raised patches are gone.
I would caution that the CBD drops stain clothing and bedding, but what the heck! And it can be removed by poring a little hydrogen peroxide on the spots before laundering.
I'm going to ask my doctor here in Oregon for a medical marijuana card so I can start experimenting with cannabis oil. My understanding is that it works great for various kinds of seizures, and have some hope it can tone down my often hyperactive/staticy Lyme brain.
FWIW, CBD drops can be purchased right now on Amazon for $40/oz, free shipping. They don't have THC and are said to be made from hemp. I get the Cibdex brand, peppermint flavored. I've just successfully grown my own medical varieties, harvested one plant and am in process of tincturing it using grain alcohol and water as the solvents, (learned from Steven Bruhner's books on herbalism) which I will then heat to remove much of the alcohol and water. So I won't be buying CBD from now on, I hope.
Before you go for your doctor visit to get the card, I'd recommend you review, if you haven't already, which conditions Oregon will accept as a reason for getting it. It varies from state to state and you need to be prepared.
I live in CA so I can get it too. I have enough arthritis in my spine that I'm sure I'd qualify. I want no THC (spent way too much time loaded when I was in college).
@Iquitos So you use the tincture for sleep? That is what I would want it for.
@minkeygirl Yes, I use it for sleep, muscle spasms and pain. A little THC is, I think, synergistic with the other 85 or so cannabinoids and as far as I can tell, I need SOME THC for sleep. I make my tincures in three different strengths so that I can take it at different times of day without feeling "stoned", at least until I go to bed. I'm very sensitive to THC so a little goes a long way for me. It also has the side effect of adding to my appetite which I do not need.
I have two medical varieties, one with 7% each THC and CBD, the other with 5% THC, 6% CBD. "Stoner" cannabis often has up to 20+% THC and that would make me catatonic, so when you go to a dispensary for yours, make sure you find out what the composition of the variety is, that they are recommending for you. And as I said before, check to see which conditions your state has approved for this treatment. It varies a lot and isn't particulary logical. Some states authorize it for PTSD but Colorado doesn't, for example. And of course, none of them acknowledge ME/CFS, period.
On one of the MTHFRsupport podcasts, they featured Dawn Newton, who used it to cure her breast cancer.
MTHFRsupport says that the action of cannabis oil is somehow related to methylation, but I'm still waiting on an answer in their forum as to how it works.
What I don't want is the eating which is why I haven't gotten an rx yet. I remember eating about 10 fudgecicles in a row when I was in college, and that was to start.
I have all my medical records and from what I understand they will use them for a determination to get the rx.
Also it's about $100 to see a doc and an annual license is about $65.
You need a separate license to grow for personal use and since anything I try to grow commits suicide, making my own isn't an option.
I've heard that it's been proven (of course, this is heresay - I haven't seen the tests myself)... to be more effective in managing pain in fibro than any other pain relief.
That said, I experimented with an edible while in Colorado. The dosage was extremely high and as a result, I ended up quite ill for about eight hours after eating it... and 'hung over' for a good 24 hours after that. Of course, it was with THC since it was sold as recreational. So if you do try the oils and/or edibles containing the oils, make sure you start slow.
I have no pain so I only would want it for sleep. And like anything low and slow.
Actually it's more than hearsay. There is a thread here on PR with a study testing cannabis vs. Cymbalta and the two other top prescriptions for fibromyalgia and cannabis beat all three in effectiveness and other aspects.
The dose per edible problem is being addressed by new regulations whereby they will have portions more clearly stated and a warning that edibles are not the same as smoked or vaped cannabis.
I'm very sensitive to the THC, too, and that's probably what whacked you. I have gained some tolerance as time goes by and I keep using it, though.
@minkeygirl I'd suggest you check CA's laws regarding what illness it can be prescribed for, ahead of time. Docs are usually helpful and optimistic that you can try it but the law defines what illnesses it can be prescribed for and there are still those who would try to entrap a doc, plus those who want to put a damper on its use, period.
Here the application/license costs $15, the doc I went to charged $65 and that included the notarization of the prescription and complete instructions on how to proceed. When you get those notarized papers, they copied them for me, put them in a manila folder and told me I could use them at a dispensary for 30 days. It took Colorado 36 days to send me the red card, but I had already purchased all I needed at the dispensary before my first 30 days were up.
I did not take medical records with me but I don't have any that would satisfy the lawful medical use here anyway. I was certified on fibromyalgia, which I do have, in the usual ME way. The doc did a hands-on exam and tested the fibromyalgia tender points. I don't have all of them but the ones I have are intense. And they took my blood pressure beforehand and that was excruciating! I wish they'd come up with some other way than squeezing the upper arm with that infernal machine!
And if you can get a low THC variety at a dispensary, you can make your own tincture, if that interests you. That's what I did until I got my own plant mature enough to use. It's soaking in grain alcohol and distilled water now and I'll heat it to remove much of the alcohol and water in a day or two.
The license here allows the patient to grow her own, up to 6 plants. I've heard they've also said that's 3 plants flowering and 3 plants vegetative. And there are limits on how much you can have "saved up." I don't know how they would determine that when mine is tinctured, but hopefully I won't have to cross that bridge.
Best of luck to you!
Here there are special doctors who only write marijuana rx's. That's their business. Cash only, bring me your medical records, here's your RX. Dispensaries open and close and relocate weekly.
I'm not interested in making my own tincture. Far to much work and I just don't have the energy for it. I don't even have the energy to get to a doc to get the RX so until they legalize it here recreationally, I'm not going to worry about it.
BTW, idiots like Justin Bieber, Wiz Kalefa and others have Rx's. You think Bieber has a medical issue where he needs pot? All you need is to say you're stressed and you can get.
Yes, but we don't know what they told the doc that certified them and you and I both know that same doc might not be so helpful to one of us. For all we know, Bieber has fibromyalgia.
You're missing the point. Any idiot here can get an RX for pot. Period.
Here's just one study about synthetic cannabis CB1 as treatment for melanoma: (Found in the 1000-page PDF of Granny Crow, mentioned above.)
Pathol Oncol Res. 2012 Oct;18(4):857-66. Epub 2012 Mar 24.
Revisiting CB1 receptor as drug target in human melanoma.
Kenessey I1, Bánki B, Márk A, Varga N, Tóvári J, Ladányi A, Rásó E, Tímár J.
12nd Department of Pathology, Semmelweis University, Üllői út 93., Budapest, 1091, Hungary. firstname.lastname@example.org
Previous studies have indicated the antitumoral effect of human melanocytes, human melanoma cell lines expressing CB1 receptor (CB1), and of the peritumoral administration of endocannabinoids. In the present study, we systematically screened several human melanoma cell lines for the expression of CNR1 and demonstrated transcription of the authentic gene. The product of CNR1, the CB1 protein, was found localized to the cell membrane as well as to the cytoskeleton. Further, the studied human melanoma cell lines expressed functional CB1 since physiological and synthetic ligands, anandamide (AEA), Met-F-AEA, ACEA and AM251 showed a wide range of biological effects in vitro, for example anti-proliferative, proapoptotic and anti-migratory. More importantly, our studies revealed that systemic administration of a stable CB1 agonist, ACEA, into SCID mice specifically inhibited liver colonization of human melanoma cells. Since therapeutic options for melanoma patients are still very limited, the endocannabinoid-CB1 receptor system may offer a novel target.
OK, I getcha! Not like it is here in Colorado, then. Which no longer matters, unless you want to buy it from a dispensary and not pay recreational tax, which is a lot more than medical tax.
Cannabinoids affecting breast cancer:
J Natl Cancer Inst. 2008 Jan 2;100(1):59-69. Epub 2007 Dec 25.
Inhibition of cancer cell invasion by cannabinoids via increased expression of tissue inhibitor of matrix metalloproteinases-1.
Ramer R1, Hinz B.
1Institute of Toxicology and Pharmacology, University of Rostock, Schillingallee 70, Rostock D-18057, Germany.
Cannabinoids, in addition to having palliative benefits in cancer therapy, have been associated with anticarcinogenic effects. Although the antiproliferative activities of cannabinoids have been intensively investigated, little is known about their effects on tumor invasion.
Matrigel-coated and uncoated Boyden chambers were used to quantify invasiveness and migration, respectively, of human cervical cancer (HeLa) cells that had been treated with cannabinoids (the stable anandamide analog R(+)-methanandamide [MA] and the phytocannabinoid delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol [THC]) in the presence or absence of antagonists of the CB1 or CB2 cannabinoid receptors or of transient receptor potential vanilloid 1 (TRPV1) or inhibitors of p38 or p42/44 mitogen-activated protein kinase (MAPK) pathways. Reverse transcriptase-polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR) and immunoblotting were used to assess the influence of cannabinoids on the expression of matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs) and endogenous tissue inhibitors of MMPs (TIMPs). The role of TIMP-1 in the anti-invasive action of cannabinoids was analyzed by transfecting HeLa, human cervical carcinoma (C33A), or human lung carcinoma cells (A549) cells with siRNA targeting TIMP-1. All statistical tests were two-sided.
Without modifying migration, MA and THC caused a time- and concentration-dependent suppression of HeLa cell invasion through Matrigel that was accompanied by increased expression of TIMP-1. At the lowest concentrations tested, MA (0.1 microM) and THC (0.01 microM) led to a decrease in invasion (normalized to that observed with vehicle-treated cells) of 61.5% (95% CI = 38.7% to 84.3%, P < .001) and 68.1% (95% CI = 31.5% to 104.8%, P = .0039), respectively. The stimulation of TIMP-1 expression and suppression of cell invasion were reversed by pretreatment of cells with antagonists to CB1 or CB2 receptors, with inhibitors of MAPKs, or, in the case of MA, with an antagonist to TRPV1. Knockdown of cannabinoid-induced TIMP-1 expression by siRNA led to a reversal of the cannabinoid-elicited decrease in tumor cell invasiveness in HeLa, A549, and C33A cells.
Increased expression of TIMP-1 mediates an anti-invasive effect of cannabinoids. Cannabinoids may therefore offer a therapeutic option in the treatment of highly invasive cancers.
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