Professor & patients' paper on the solvable biological challenge of ME/CFS: reader-friendly version
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Cannabis and ME in the UK

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by MeSci, Sep 17, 2014.

  1. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    Previously posted in research forum by mistake

    Just seen this on another forum:

    http://www.itv.com/news/central/201...turning-to-the-streets-for-their-pain-relief/

    [extract]

     
  2. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

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    In Colorado, USA, the incidence of drug overdoses of prescription painkillers had dropped dramatically since legalization of medical (and recreational) cannabis. That's another reason BigPHarma is putting a lot of money into anticannabis propaganda. Like the tobacco industry did, they are trying to "sow doubt, sow doubt, sow doubt."
     
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  3. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

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    Very interesting that the article calls our illness "ME". I guess they didn't get the memo not to call it "ME".

    It's the only pain relief I can get.

    Around here the cops don't care about pot anymore. They get all excited about meth labs now. I guess it's more profitable for them somehow. They get to play with all their toys, including hazmat suits, mobile "command posts", portable labs, big trucks, etc.

    Recently someone called the cops on my neighbors and claimed they were cooking meth. Since my neighbor's son is out of jail on probation, they don't need warrants or permission or evidence. For people on probation, it's do as your told or go back to the slammer. It must've been a slow week, 'cause everybody showed up for the party, even the Border Patrol helicopter that flew overhead, in big lazy circles, for two hours. I'm pretty sure the helicopter is to intimidate everyone in the area: Don't step out of line, 'cause We're Watching!

    This is all great fun for everyone, 'cause you know damn well they're all on overtime pay, and if they find any cash, the cops take it and use it to help fund the next raid...
     
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  4. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

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    Yeah...google "Black Asphalt". It's a website for law enforcement where they can coach each other on how to bust and confiscate, where they brag about how much they've stolen from people who have not broken the law but are considered guilty (of something, anything) until they prove their innocence.

    Stories like a restaurant owner who had $5,000 on him, on his way to buy equipment and supplies for his restaurant, and was stopped by this type of cop. They confiscated his money and he had to spend at least half the amount on lawyers, just to get his won money back. He was never arrested or charged with anything. And his business failed while he was trying to get his money back.
     
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  5. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

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    Most articles call it ME in Britain. It's the psychiatrists' most amusing failure, in my opinion .
     
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  6. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    I am all for legalization.

    A family member who is an oncologist/hematologist ptrscribes it. He says the medication is more effective than street pot or growing your own. I can't remember his reasons.

    Anyone, have a source about this?

    Barb
     
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  7. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

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    I'm allergic. Not that I'd know that for any reason, or anything.
     
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  8. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    A friend of mine was allergic to cannabis. He had a sneezing fit every time he tried it. It annoyed the hell out of him but was quite amusing to watch and hear:

    "ATTSSCCHOOO!" [expletive] "ATTSSCCHOOO!" [expletive] "ATTSSCCHOOO!" [expletive] "ATTSSCCHOOO!" [expletive] "ATTSSCCHOOO!" [expletive] (etc.)

    I think the amusement p*ssed him off even more.
     
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  9. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

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    It was more an itching like hell problem I had. Not that I'd know. Me, drugs, pffft!
     
  10. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    My condolences.
     
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  11. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

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    Here are several youtube videos on medical cannabis treatment of various cancers:

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=medical cannabis for cancer

    Israel and Spain have also published research into that use. And maybe Germany, but my memory fails me on that.

    @barbc56 I don't know why your family member would think growing your own is less effective. I can understand why street pot might not be -- you never know what variety, what chemicals might be on it or what the % of the various cannabinoids might be. But the varieties I grow (Med GOM 1.0 and CBD Kush are my favorites) have the ratio of THC to CBD that I want: 7% for each. (That's much lower in THC than "stoner" weed, which can have up to 25% THC.)

    And here in Colorado, some research into contamination of medical cannabis bought at dispensaries has turned up things like mold, other filth and even bacteria that indicates the "bud tenders" aren't washing their hands after using the toilet. At least I can be sure what I grow does not have any of those problems.
     
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  12. Strawberry

    Strawberry Senior Member

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    FWIW Washington State has also recently legalized recreational, and medical has been legal for a while. I decided to try it for pain (a friend has a medical card), and I agree with Iquitos that it needs to be low (or none) THC and high CBD. I found a pill that I have now taken twice that is amazing. I thought it was CBD only, but after reading the package it does have a little THC. I take it when I go to bed, and I am pain free for two days off one pill. I am in love! I also am trying a CBD tincture that seems to work, although I am waiting to get pain levels back from taking the pills so I can compare.

    Street stuff got me higher than a kite, and I was STILL in pain. And smoking it (with a vaporizer) makes me gag, which gave me acid reflux sore throat on top of glandular sore throat. :confused: So that stuff was promptly given away!
     
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  13. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    @Iquitos
    Sorry, I wasn't very clear. What he meant was growing your own isn't as effective for pain.:D

    I agree, home grown would be the preferable method.

    Barb

    ETA Thanks for the links.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2014
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  14. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

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    @Strawberry I think a little THC is probably good. I believe in the synergy of medicinal plants. THC in low amounts probably has some balancing affect on the other 38 (or hundreds, depending on who is estimating) cannabidoids in the plant. And apparently, from some of the research I've read, the other cannabinoids can reduce the "stoner" affect of THC.

    Weed sold for recreational use has a completely different process from the one I use. They trim off all the plant leaves and only use the female flower buds, which have the most THC. I use the whole plant, including the stems, and any male plants I might end up with. (I buy feminized seeds so not many male plants happen, but it's not 100%.)

    I'm curious about the pill you got. Is that one of the pharmaceuticals that have been around a long time, or??

    I had a similar experience to yours. ("Street stuff got me higher than a kite, and I was STILL in pain. And smoking it (with a vaporizer) makes me gag, which gave me acid reflux sore throat on top of glandular sore throat.")

    Even though the dispensary I bought from before I grew my own told me the variety I bought (Red Dragon) was medicinal and it did help me sleep, it didn't do that much for pain and I hated the attempt to smoke it. I also ended up giving much of it away, before I decided to make a tincture out of what I had left. (Inspired by Steven Bruhner, the master herbalist who teaches the reader how to make herbal tinctures of other herbal medicines.)

    I have also used the CBD-only tincture and although it helped with pain, I find the varieties I grow to have a better balance for my purposes. (7% THC, 7% CBD, other cannabinoids % unknown.) Somehow it is also reducing joint pain little by little, even when I haven't taken any. I suspect it is reducing swelling and/or inflammation in my hip joints, for instance.) And I found that it made skin lesions go away when I experimented by applying it to only one side of my face.

    I really wish American researchers would investigate how it works. Colorado has pledged $9 million of medical cannabis tax revenue to research, pro and con, into medical cannabis. The researcher does not have to be in or from Colorado. I understand they are taking applications now.
     
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  15. Strawberry

    Strawberry Senior Member

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    I will try to get some information for you over the weekend. All I know is it is a 1 a day, and the CBD is almost 4%, and the THC is almost 2%.

    I'd love to hear how you do that! Before I ever even tried to smoke it, I tried to make a baggie into butter. I guess 180F is too hot? Someone told me I ruined it. I put it in my freezer just in case it is salvageable. PM me if this is a forbidden subject.....
     
  16. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

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    @Strawberry There is a lot of information on various ways to process the herb on youtube, including how to make cannabutter. The Denver Post also has a section called The Cannabist which also has an article on how to make it. I don't think 180 is too hot. I've read that at least THC needs to be heated to at least 200 to change it from the precursor chemical (THCa ??).

    I can't imagine why instructions on how to make the tincure would be forbidden. It's legal where I live and where you live. And instructions are available on youtube and other sites on the internet.

    I dry the whole plant for several days (3-6), then snip it into the size pieces that will fit in my food processer (using heavy duty scissors), including the stems. Around 1" pieces.

    I freeze it all for an hour or two, or until I have time to continue the process.

    I grind it up in my food processer, to a powder as fine or finer than corn meal. Some parts of stems may still be larger than that. Parts of the plant are sticky and freezing it before grinding makes less of it stick to the food processer.

    I put the ground herb in a clean glass jar with a screw-on lid. I eyeball the level of it in the jar and then add about 2 parts grain alcohol. (GemClear is the cheapest brand where I am; it's sold at the liquor store and is 190 proof, meaning it is 95% alcohol, 5% water.) (Using ethanol is safer than other solvents since it is manufactured for human consumption and I leave some of the alcohol in the tincure, but keep in mind that it is flammable. No open flames, please!) If it looks like a lot of herb has stuck to the food processer, I rinse it with a little of the alcohol before adding that to the jar.

    I add a similar amount of distilled water, a bit less than the grain alcohol since the GemClear has some water already.

    So, if the level of ground herb is, say, 1/2", I add about an inch of GemClear and a little less than an inch of distilled water. The exact amounts are not that important, but you could use a measuring cup if you prefer. I try to use the fewest containers possible since the herb is somewhat sticky and some gets left in each container.

    I leave it to macerate (soak) on the top shelf of my closet for several days, at least three, but it's probably not important as long as it's a day or more. Longer will work, too, whenever I get the time, energy and urge to finish it. I've seen some recommendations that it macerate for a week or more, but I don't see any reason for it, especially when the herb is ground to a powder. I shake it up whenever I remember to.

    Now the messy part: I use a layer of cheese cloth under a coffee filter, clothespinned to a two-cup measuring cup (any glass container will work). I pour the liquid and the dregs into the filters and let it drip through until there is nothing but herb left. I then press it with a spoon to get more liquid out. Then I pick up the filters and twist and squeeze the remaining liquid into the container. It will be green and will stain most of what it touches, but bleach will clean that up.

    I have an electric stove with a flat cooktop. I pour the liquid into a flat-bottomed Pyrex bowl and "cook" it on low heat, about 200 degrees, to evaporate most of the alcohol and water. If you cook it down too much you start to get "Rick Simpson oil" which I don't like because it is so sticky and hard to deal with. That's why I stop the process while there is still some alcohol and water in the tincture. If there is a lot of black sediment that won't mix with the liquid, you've cooked it down too much. You can add back a little alcohol to get it back in suspension.

    I let it cool a little, then funnel it into an empty herbal tincture bottle, left over from trying other herbal tinctures. The amount from one plant is around 1 oz. My bottles have eyedroppers so that is what I use to administer the tincture to myself.

    I was sent some free seeds along with my medical varieties so I grew them, too. They have higher THC than my medical varieties so I process them separately, label the bottles with the variety, and use the higher THC tincture only right before bed, or when my pain is worse than usual because I've been overdoing it. With the eyedropped delivery system, you can adjust your dosage, drop by drop, until you get it how you need it.

    If your stove has an open flame, I don't recommend using it for this purpose. Too high a chance of catching fire. I saw in some youtube video that some people use the keep warm pad of a coffee maker to evaporate the extra liquid, and some use a slow cooker/crock pot to do it. Anything with low heat and no flame.

    I like the taste and smell of my medical varieties (Med GOM 1.0 and CBDKush) so I take them "straight." I don't like the smell and taste of the higher THC varieties so I sometimes add a little honey to the bottle while the tincture is still warm. And shake up the bottle before using, for all tinctures.

    If I'm not going to be driving, which is usually at least 6 days out of 7, I start the day with a few drops of a medical variety and do it again two or three times during the day. Then switch to a stronger formulation right before bed.

    The only unwanted side affects are increased appetite and some increased dizzyness (I already have ataxia) for maybe an hour after taking it. As always, start low and go slow.

    If you have any questions, feel free to ask here or PM me.

    Here's an interesting youtube video about medical cannabis:

    Here's one on making cannabutter: (one of my favorites; by MonaLisaLuvsMaryJane)

    Making tintcures, various methods: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cannabis tincture making
     
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  17. Strawberry

    Strawberry Senior Member

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  18. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

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    It's actually quite frightening that this robbery continues unabated. I first read about "civil assert forfeiture" in the mid 1990's. At that time I made a road trip from Maine to Arkansas, to visit some old friends.

    On the way back home, driving through Tennessee on the interstate I was stopped by the highway patrol, for no obvious reason. Well the reason was that I had a nice little pickup with a custom camper on the back. And out-of-state plates. A half-dozen cops were in the median looking for anybody who might be transporting illegal drugs. I was driving the speed limit which in itself is nowadays considered suspicious.

    The cop wanted to know my life story and where I was going to and where I was coming from and who did I go visit. He was really interested in my camper and kept asking about it. Finally he asked to search it. My normal reaction to such a request would normally be "HELL NO!" But there I was on the side of the road 1000 miles from home and no local contacts. Not good. I knew there was nothing to find. I also considered that if I said no, he would just make up some excuse to search it anyway, and then trash my camper in the search. I could just imagine the cop inspecting my expensive lap top computer (especially in 1997!) and "accidentally" dropping it. Or maybe seize the whole truck.

    Anyway I consented under duress, he poked around a little, gave me a warning ticket for "failure to use turn signal when changing lanes" and I continued towards home, extremely upset. Even the warning ticket was totally bogus because I hadn't changed lanes. The roadway changed from the eastbound side to the westbound side then back again due to construction. I stayed in the right lane the whole time. So this warning ticket excuse to stop people is completely fraudulent. But that doesn't matter to cops.

    Here's the short version of civil asset forfeiture. It's based on English common law. It derives from the concept that inanimate objects and livestock can commit crimes too, for example if your ox gores somebody on the road, it has committed a crime. But since it's not a person, it has no rights, including the right of innocence until guilt is proven. So if the cops decide that your car or your hotel or whatever has committed a crime they just take it and good luck getting it back.
     
  19. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    Are you sure they were looking for drugs, @jimells? Maybe there had been a serious crime locally. If he only had a brief look, it could have been something bigger they were looking for, like stolen goods or even a body?
     
  20. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

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    There are dozens, maybe 100's of similar accounts, some even video recorded, of this kind of behavior by cops.

    "Asset forfeiture" is the new highway robbery and Black Asphalt is a place where cops brag about what they have taken from innocent people and coach each other on how to do it.

    Here in Colorado, people with Colorado license plates are being "license plate profiled" and stopped for bogus reasons by the cops when they drive to adjoining states that haven't lifted prohibition...yet.

    In Wyoming they tore one 70-year old Colorado man's pickup apart, claiming they could "smell marijuana." They were either lying or hallucinating. They wrecked his pickup looking for it and never found a thing that was illegal. Then gave him a ticket for not signalling a lane change, which he says is another lie. He's suing them and I hope he wins.

    In Oklahoma, where several cops have been raping women they stopped, their supervisor says the way women can avoid being raped is to not do anything illegal, like not signalling a lane change..."soon enough."
     

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