Discussion in 'Fungal Infection (Yeast, Candida)' started by Gestalt, Sep 25, 2013.
Sucking on a lemon also promotes alkalinity.
Lemons/limes are acid forming in the GUT but are alkaline forming in the blood. Apple cider vinegar has similar effects...
Be careful as prolonged direct contact with ascorbic acid/acids are detrimental to tooth enamel. Been there, done that...
Unless you lack sufficient stomach acid, which tends to happen as people age, I probably wouldn't focus too much on the minutia of which acids/bases you digest. What most people should be interested in here is generating acids in the large intestine, from SCFA fermentation. That's the most powerful/effective way to induce the broad mild acidity in the GIT that we need.
Is there any benefit, in terms of healing from candida overgrowth or fostering a healthy gut biome in general, to starting with a ZC/VLC diet for a period of several months before eventually introducing safe starches per the Perfect Health Diet recommendations? It seems that many testimonials (including Paul Jaminet's personal recovery story) follow a pattern of initial success in resolving health issues with a ZC/VLC diet, before the need to introduce starches due to gradually developing issues related to candida adaptation to ketones, adrenal fatigue, growing insulin resistance, thyroid issues, etc. Would going ZC/VLC for a period long enough to starve pathogenic gut bacteria/fungi, but not long enough for one's candida to adapt to ketones as an energy source, be somehow preferable or more conducive to eventual success than starting with starches right off the bat?
Personally, I trust Paul's take on the science more than most anyone else's that I've come across - but I can't deny that I feel better on VLC after only a few days (less brain fog, more energy, better mood - which are the most important factors for me) than I do after several months on strict PHD. I struggle to understand why this would be. Can you guys provide any feedback on this?
So, in Paul's diet, (and assuming you have a somewhat decent microbiome) you can inactivate and kill/crowd out candida by simply improving your SCFA production and maintaining a healthy gut barrier. If the right gut bugs are in place, you can literally turn them into candida killing/inactivating machines. In a VLC diet, you are in a sense initiating a starvation protocol, which diminishes the candida and causes it to hunker down under its sticky biofilm until it potentially adapts to ketones (which would take many months). When ideal conditions are appropriate, it starts up again.
Starvation protocols have their place (the GAPS diet for instance). They can be quite therapeutic. But, they also have risks as you can easily starve out keystone species in the process (i.e. the starvation isn't limited to the "bad" guys). Over the long term, VLC diets have been casually linked to some immune issues — and given what we know about good bacteria teaching our immune system how to behave, you can see why VLC diets are probably not a good idea if you are trying to preserve your microbiome.
Addiontally, the main problem with VLC is that it's extremely difficult to maintain a slightly acidic colon when you are VLC, since fermentable fibers decrease significantly (even if you eat a lot of salads, which are mostly low-fermenting cellulose). So, a neutral or alkaline colon will provide an environment that candida can become hyphal once it finds the fuel to power it. Remember, candida is "dimorphic" which means that it has a Jeckyl and Hyde aspect to it. When it's hyphal (when gut fermentation is low) it sends out these little strings into your organs and punches holes in your gut. When gut fermentation and pH is normalized, candida's growth gene is switched off and it becomes benign — still allowing you to hit it with biofilm disruptors and candida cell wall digesters. And, low carb diets can diminish your mucosa, since your gut barrier is Mucin-2, which is 80% sugar by weight, and your liver would need to produce that extra glucose continually to maintain it. Dry eyes and lack of tears when VLC is a sign that not enough mucus us being generated.
So, you have to decide on an approach. Starvation protocols are sort of like an antibiotic. It kills/starves bad guys and good guys. Paul's diet just changes the ecosystem.
If you do decide to go with the starvation protocol (and it can't be done long term), you would do well if you can eat a good amount of high-fermenting low-carb vegetables, rich in inulin (onions, chicory, dandelion greens) and consider the usual treatments (garlic, propolis and pau d'arco, biofilm disruptors, etc). Getting probiotics from foods (raw kimchee, raw sauerkraut, raw miso, perhaps some unwashed raw organic greens, etc.) and supplements should provide a foundation for RS-hungry critters that you can eventually feed with RS and starches.
* None of this should be construed as medical advice. Proceed at your own risk.
Ripley, I eat meat, fish, much vegetables and berries and coconuts. I am cautious with beginning safe starchs in the nutrition. Since 3 months I take probiotics and fibres, since 4 weeks I take RS (4Tbsp) and more fibres (LAG 3 tbsp, oligofructose, inulin, psyllium, cognac root, agave fibre, pectine, beta glucan each 1 tbsp)
It takes time for me to habituate to the perfect health diet. With the mentionned supplements, am I able to establish my gut flora anyway, and very very very slowy shift to PHD?
I think so. If you can tolerate those supplements, you're already doing pretty well. Good luck!
Here's a great explanation, by @Gestalt of the problems with VLC when combating candida:
So, nutrient starvation is not an ideal approach to killing candida.
I suspect candida and yeasts need to abide by these various marching orders (switching to its hyphal when abnormal gut pH levels are detected, starvation is enduced, and ability to feed from any fuel source) so that they can properly decompose and recycle its host when the host dies. Upon death, all food would stop (i.e. starvation) and pH would become abnormal. This would be a perfect signal for candida to become hyphal and begin eating its own dead host. In our case, perhaps we've just messed up our guts to the point that it triggers its internal program to start eating us.
Fungi have two roles in nature. They offer potent medicines and they are natures most powerful recyclers! Their roles existed on this planet well before vascular plants and animals even existed.
Thank you @Gestalt and @Ripley. You put me in Grateful Mode just like that!
This will be a beautiful day. May you enjoy a reflection of all the help you are giving.
Thank you, Ripley, for your answer. Do you know, whether the carbohydrate calories from the daily attached fibres (8 tsp) and PS (3 tbsp) are counting for the total daily carbohydrate intake?
My carb intake at time comes from berries, coconuts, vegetables, chicken soup
Pure "resistant" starch does not count towards carb calories. It's a food for your gut bugs, not for you. It's a little confusing because a bag of potato starch claims to contain glycemic carbs since they are expecting you to cook the starch. So, the calories are for cooked starch. I can't speak for the other fibers, as it would depend on their intended purpose.
I don´t know very much, but maybe the difference could be the immune response to the safe starches of PHD, and an inactivated immune systeme with VLC.
An active immune system fights against pathogens, which enhances immune responses, and an inactive immune system starves the gut organismes.
PS: Thank you, Ripley for your answer, and for all of your efforts
More interesting aspects of candida (hat tip to @Gemma).
So, it is benign when it has just the right amount of glucose available, and pH and body temperature are normal. It becomes pathogenic when it becomes glucose starved — being able to change the pH of its immediate environment (by secreting ammonia) so that it can become hyphal automatically, in search of tissues to eat.
This is idea of candida sensing the exogenous glucose is explained here: Glucose Sensing Network in Candida albicans: a Sweet Spot for Fungal Morphogenesis.
With neurological issues and chronic infections suggests PHD a reduced carb intake with 200 carbs/day in his book. Ripley, do you know, to reach enough glucose, how much glucose is the minimum? Mark´s daily suggests 30 g glucose a day.
But if I´m fighting systemic candida, and therefore have carb intolerance, what is the absolut minimum to successfully fight candida infection?
I take RS + fibres without problem, and eat in summary 100 g carbs of coconut, starchy sweet vegetables like radish, onions, carots, fennel, seeds, chicken stock (has as far as I remember glucosamin), but I do not eat white rice or sweet potatoes. I plan to eat them, but first I must fight candida successfully.
So, your study says, I need glucose for fighting candida, but without glucose of starchy plants like white rice or sweet potatoes, can I fight candida? Can I meanwhile replace glucose with glyconutrients, ribose and galactose, which I take without problems?
Sorry for so many questions! The switch between low carb and PHD isn´t easy.
do not apologise for asking too many questions. There would be no answers without questions. I am going to try to give some answers. I don't have all the answers, though.
And don't forget I may be wrong .-)
So, thank you very much for asking, emphasis in your comment mine.
As it seems, we are looking at a very clever, and not at all primitive organism in the fungi. They are far more clever than us humans. They have been around much, much longer then us mammals.
So, how to co-exist with them? Is there a way, as they can be our symbionts, commensals, pathogens or killers, all at once? Not sure, but at least we can try. Though they will win at the end. C'est la vie.
Some random thoughts from me now.
The yeasts in your GI will behave peacefully and commensally as long as they are happy, do not feel too much threat from the immune system and/or from the other microorganisms, are kept in check by beneficial microbes, and most of all, when they do not have to fight to get a place at the glucose rich table. Glucose is their most favourite food, that is why they are sensing for it. (There are many other factors, of course).
So what to do?
In short, we could say:
Decrease their amount.
Feed them well and they will behave. Feeding well means not too much and not too little nutrients.
Decrease inflammation so that they feel more in peace. (This is the hard part for many people here, I believe)
Have your beneficial microbial army ready, equipped with various weapons, and well fed too.
How do you manage to beat such an enemy if it seems to be able to overcome almost any obstacle it faces? It can take time but it almost always adapts.
So, what about playing some tricks?
Do it all at once? Both feed it well with some sugar and destroy its hiding place with biofilm disruptors?
Deliver your lactobacilli army, together with its proviant and weapons by eating fermented foods. Daily. With each meal.
Explore medical clay. Explore propolis. Discover oil pulling with sesame oil.
Eat some honey daily, full of nutrients science knows nothing about.
Eat lot of inulin rich foods in their natural form. There comes a lot of goodness together with inulin. It is not only about starches.
Have plenty of fresh air, sleep, movement and happy laugh. If you are happy, your fungi will be happy too. Happy fungi cannot be (too) angry.
And perhaps, slowly, it will happen. The disrupted, confused, both threatened and appeased fungi will be pushed away. Time to reconquer the lost territories. Time for RS fermenting now -- for those not tolerating it before. With enough glucose around it might revert into the harmless yeast form, and even more of them washed away.
Can you stop now? I am afraid not. Just keep doing the same, not so intensely, perhaps.
Oh, the glucose. How much glucose is the right amount and not too much, not too little? I am afraid it is impossible to say, it is so individual. You never know what is happening inside your GI, where the energy goes and how is glucose partitioned among the competitors and de-novo generated.
You do not know how much glucose and SCFAs are produced as a result of microbial fermentation. It is so individual. Your genes play a role, your diet and health history matters, etc. But too little is probably not enough
P.S. Back in spring I decided to eat a clove of garlic. It was after a period of my previous rather careless LC dietary experiment, followed by a strange phase when I tried to repair the damage by including more starch and RS foods. So, the first time I ate the whole clove of garlic in the early afternoon. What a night! I think there was a harsh battle going on, a kind of a litmus test.
So, I have tweaked some things, ate and behaved differently and, voilà! I can eat my clove of garlic every day with no ill effects and I feel the best in my life.
Another funny experience happened when trying out Tim Steele's (Tatertot) Potato Hack... with some raw potatoes at each meal. Well, that would be along story and totally not related to candida, so, perhaps another time, anyway my post is too long now.
P.P.S. I have no CFS or ME or FM or such illness.
Thank you, Gemma, for your answer.
If I understand right, what you mean, we shall no longer treat Candida and Parasites as our enemy, rather as organism living in our body. And the more we do to support our immune system, the more candida and parasites will be take the right place between the other living organism.
That´s exactly the same message, as Vegas mediates in the resistent starch thread. And the only permanently treatment. And it pleases me very much. as I also mean, we had enough battles the last century, and we see, that we can never win battles.
So I will stay on to support my body with a good diet, PHD and RS-thread have both from today´s view a very good fundament and powerful ideas, which strongly support SCFA and glycose metabolism and immunity. For biofilms I take the biofilm breaking enzymes (virastop, candidase and nattokinase).
PS: the potatoe experiment would be verry interesting!
Kind regards, jepps
Some very good information on this thread.
One issue that I have with this candida business, is that it is often associated with a collection of certain symptoms. How can one reasonably know if someone has a candida issue that needs resolving. I know there are stool and blood antibody tests.
However as I understand candida is present in everyone or at least some healthy people. And of course there are different strains and species of candida.
I'm just sceptical regarding the various ideas around candida as various websites have linking certain health issues with candida without much without reliable scientific references.
Yes, it has a lot to do with RS, and not only RS but many other polysaccharides that our gut flora ferments.
What about cayenne? Eat some chilli.
Read here, it is used for weight loss, but it is very anti-inflammatory as well. No idea what it does in CFS, though
The potato diet
I am restrictive with cayenne and with other spices, I wonder, if cayenne irritates the gut.
The potato diet sounds interesting. I´m going to slowly build up healthy amounts of carbs, proteins and fats according to PHD, as well as establish a healthy amount of supplements.
Thank you very much for your ideas!
Kind regards, jepps
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