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Candida & Biofilms - Theory & Protocol

Discussion in 'Fungal Infection (Yeast, Candida)' started by Gestalt, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    Wow, thanks for that info. That makes a lot of sense. I am starting to think the entire Candida issue is an alkalinity issue. This was posted before, and I am posting it again:

    Alkalinity promotes Candida overgrowth

    Now let's take a look at pH tracked through the entire GI tract.

    [​IMG]


    It's the small intestine section from the Duodenum through to right before the Cecum that pH is of the highest alkalinity. Therefore in the above graph those in the 75th to 90th percentile are at really high risk of Candida.

    Candida creates an alkaline environment for itself to thrive. The small intestine is a natural place for it to take up residence as the the pancreas secretes sodium bicarbonate to neutralize the HCl coming in from the stomach.

    I think the trick is therefore to increase acidity in the small intestine. Now there may be a few ways to do this.
    1. Take additional amounts of HCl as in the SF742. I question this method though because the pancreas is so good already at neutralizing HCl.
    2. Drink small amounts of apple cider vinegar to hopefully directly increase acidity in the small intestine.
    3. Take lots of "lactic acid" producing lactobacilli like acidopholous. It is the lactobacilli & steptococci that inhabit the small intestine the most.
    4. Feed the lactobacilli their favorite prebiotic foods to increase lactic acid production. We therefore want quick fermenting pre-biotics.
    This will positively impact the following anti-candida strategies
    1. Saccharomyces boulardii (anti-candida yeast) works best in an acidic environment
    2. Undecylenic acid works better in an acidic environment
    In the long run I think we need to permanently shift the ecology of the small intestine to one that is more acidic. I think this is best done initially with lactic acid probiotics and then sustained by appropriate prebiotics.

    We want to be careful here so we don't create SIBO. However it looks like using Lactobacillus plantarum, lactobacillus acidophilus, lactobacillus casei, lactobacillus rhamnosus are the same bacteria that can cure SIBO will also cure SIFO which is what we are after.


    Questions:

    I wonder if there is an acid that is not neutralized by sodium bicarbonate? I wonder by what chemical mechanism Candida makes an environment more alkaline?

    I can't help but think that meals have a strong impact in terms of all of this. Should anti-candida supplements be taken away from meals, in hopes there isn't sodium bicarbonate released to neutralize their effects? Or should we be trying to counter-act/compensate for the bicarbonate released during meal digestion?

    My thoughts are an empty stomach may be ideal, or right before a meal. Stomach acid is notorious for killing probiotics. Delayed release lactobacilli capsules with stomach acid guard may be a good strategy here. Also the ideal prebiotics need to be determined. Ones that increase acidity and are favored by the small intestine microbes. @Ripley any ideas from your extensive readings?
    Sparrowhawk likes this.
  2. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    That chart is from here. People swallowed a "smart pill" that reported back the pH. And it was noted:
    So, there is no doubt that the small intestine is supposed to be the least acidic part of the GIT — it's not some kind of defect. But the question is whether there is benefit from it being slightly more acidic. I think it's probably ideal to be just under 7 pH. But, I wouldn't get the idea that it needs to be really acidic. I think the trick is to just make sure that it's not actually alkaline. @Gestalt , good point that some people may be susceptible to having low acid there.

    Makes me wish the "smart pill" was something you could get easily on Amazon with an iPhone app to track it. :)
    Sparrowhawk and Gestalt like this.
  3. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    pH is on a logarithmic scale so a small change in value is a large change in terms of acid/alkalinity.

    We may only move by 0.1 on the pH scale but it could make all the difference in terms of Candida. And moving by 0.1 may take quite a bit. But your right we don't want to get too acidic. Drinking vinegar by the gallon is not advised. ;)
    Ripley likes this.
  4. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    If I'm reading this correctly, it looks like some of RS is digested in the small intestine.

    http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/72/2/432.short

    Makes me wonder if RS, which in general ferments rapidly, might help increase acidity in the small intestine if some quantity of it is fermented there. I'm just guessing though.
  5. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    Fascinating...

    I asked Dr. Grace about it, and here was her reply:

    Sparrowhawk likes this.
  6. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    Tell me about it ..... :(
  7. innaz

    innaz

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    Hi, I also just started Candida diet 6 weeks ago and I take Caprylic Acid. I was wondering if you have any updates on how you are feeling and what works for you. I just started a group for people who are on Candida Diet. Please join as and share your experience. I am hoping we can support each other and see what works
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/685136058200401/
  8. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    Welcome, innaz!

    For me, I feel I have made a 90%-95% recovery from candida. The majority of my recovery took about 8 weeks.

    For what it's worth, Caprylic Acid is a fairly weak anti-fungal (I think coconut oil salesmen overpromised it's potential) — it pretty much works by lowering the pH in a petri dish to inhibit candida growth. Virtually any acid would likely have similar results in vitro (and many do). Unfortunately, the body breaks down caprylic acid into ketone bodies, and candida (being eukaryotic organisms with mitochondria) can readily adapt to ketones as a primary fuel source. In other words, Caprylic Acid can make things worse in vivo once candida has had time to adapt to ketones for fuel.

    And the Candida Diet™ is heavily flawed and obsolete, by not only being ketogenic, but by limiting fermentable carbohydrates — the very fibers that ferments to lower the pH in your GIT, which would in turn render candida into a benign yeast.

    See: Alkalinity promotes Candida overgrowth

    Most of what you need to know about successfully combating candida can be found in this very thread and this excellent post by @Gestalt. I also found the Perfect Health Diet to be extremely helpful in terms of what foods to eat to maximize intestinal fermentation while keeping candida at bay (it was originally designed as an anti-candida diet by the creator).

    Good luck to you.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
  9. innaz

    innaz

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  10. innaz

    innaz

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    Thank You. I just started on Coconut Oil. I will read the thread you recommended. I appreciate the help. So far the strict diet (no sugar of any kind and no carbs) didn't produce any noticeable results. I guess I need to explore other things.
  11. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    Let us know if you have questions.

    If/when your candida adapts to ketones as its primary fuel source (a process that can take months), the ketones your body produces from taking coconut oil — and the lack of safe starches — will only serve to fuel the candida over the long term.

    The Candida Diet™ works on the starvation theory. But it's a heavily flawed theory. Candida can simply hunker down under its biofilms until it figures out how to adapt to all those ketones floating around the body. The process of ketone adaptation can take months, so it's not something people typically notice very readily. Once it happens, it can make candida even more powerful because A) ketones are an excellent fuel source for ketone-adapted candida and B) the highly alkaline pH in the intestines (from lack of bacterial fermentation) will allow candida to thrive in its pathogenic filamentous/hyphal form — rather than the benign yeast form found at more acidic conditions. It's a double-whammy.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
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  12. innaz

    innaz

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    I just read the post. A lot of information! My question is about Protocol (Detach Matrix, Target Microbes, Cleanup & Repopulate with good guys – using Resistant Starch). How long would you continue each step before proceeding to next? Is it enough to take Candex for phase one or should it be combined with other enzymes? Does it hurt to start on bentonite clay right away? Thanks.
  13. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    Many people find it helpful to simply start eating fermentable carbs (safe starches) again to support the immune system, glycosylation of carbohydrate compounds throughout the body — such as the all-important mucin for the gut barrier — and fermentation of SCFAs by commensal gut bugs (which are known to combat candida). For many people, simply incorporating safe starches into the diet can help tremendously. So, I would start with diet.

    Keep in mind that just to get to moderate level of carbohydrates (30% as recommended by the PHD) from safe starches, you actually need to eat a ton of starches. For a person consuming 2,000 calories, that would be the equivalent of a pound of safe starches. It's way more than you think because complex carbs tend to contain a lot of water (as opposed to a refined carb which is extremely carby and tends to be quite dry and compact). Incorporating fats, acids and fibers will help minimize glycemic spikes (i.e. just eat your starches in the context of an actual meal), and your body should improve its glycemic tolerance.

    You make experience some short term side effects if you have been ketogenic and avoiding carbs for awhile.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
  14. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    So I was supplementing with N-Acetylegulcosamine (GlcNAc) for a while as it is thought to be an excellent prebiotic and is used in the synthesis of Hyaluronan. Initially I felt a bit better taking it, but then severe fatigue began to set in. I may have been inadvertently promoting the virulence of Candida.

    "GlcNAc signaling is under investigation in the human fungal pathogen Candida albicans because it is a potent inducer of hyphal growth, whereas other sugars are not (2). GlcNAc induces two sets of responses that have significance for understanding the mechanisms of pathogenesis. One pathway stimulates C. albicans to switch from budding to hyphal growth and to induce expression of virulence genes." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3190674/
    NAG may also incidentally be bad for those with Lyme disease: http://digitalcommons.uri.edu/dissertations/AAI3380537/

    After trying 2x Candex this morning, I had a slight case of nausea leading me to think NAG brought about a resurgence.

    I'm gonna go back on the candex for a bit, and try acidifying my SI with lactobacilli.
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2014
  15. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    I've tried NAG too, it didn't make me feel great either. Didn't know it might have anything to do with candida, though.
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Senior Member

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    You still avoiding NAG?
  17. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    Yes
  18. end

    end Senior Member

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    @Ripley would you consider lemon and/or lime juice pro or anticandida?

    I have read that these two fruits are acidic in the Gut but Alkaline forming in the blood
  19. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    Well, I suppose technically I would consider them to be anti-candida-growth. However, I don't subscribe to the acid/alkaline theory for the blood. See...

    The Acid-Alkaline Myth: Part 1
    The Acid-Alkaline Myth: Part 2


    It's worth pointing out that drinking/eating acid probably only has a mild to weak effect on candida. The interesting paradox is that a lot of supposedly "alkaline" foods tend to get fermented by our gut flora into Short Chain Fatty Acids — and those acids are the real medicine. It's probably more efficient to have your gut flora make the candida-fighting acids than to eat the acids.

    For most people, adding some dietary acids to your stomach tends to be helpful, but I would focus on gut fermentation for promoting the best acids in the right locations.
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
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  20. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    So trying to figure out what is the best supplement source for farnesol and phenethyl alcohol are. Ideas anyone?
    Asklipia likes this.

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