Discussion in 'Fungal Infection (Yeast, Candida)' started by Gestalt, Sep 25, 2013.
Does that cause or contribute to post-meal fatigue?
Additional butyrate should help prevent it because it helps spares glucose for the brain.
Post-meal fatigue really is a natural outcome of the function of the PNS system. I am coming to the speculative conclusion that supporting the PNS system is best done with fatty-acids such as the SCFAs (such as butyrate). Where as the SNS works optimally on glucose.
Sounds good. I'm kind of in limbo with dysbiosis at the moment, the potato starch caused significant increase in fatigue for me.
Definitely indicative of dysbiosis. I'm avoiding lectins (potatoes, grains, nuts) at the moment so I'm going to hold off on RS. After I nuke the bugs in my gut I will definitely look into RS for repopulating and maintaining the gut.
I would recommend looking into Rifaximin, dmholmes.
I looked into Rifaximin to treat Campylobacter that showed up on a stool test, but it doesn't work against it. I had some Azithromycin around so I just finished 5 days of that. Was hoping it would weed out the Campylobacter if it remains, and whatever else is causing trouble.
If you want to learn more about dysbiosis as it pertains to fibromyalgia, I've attached an excerpt from a book on the subject:
This section begins on page 18.
SIBO can be difficult to detect in a stool test. However there is a breath test for SIBO which should be easy enough to come by from a doctor.
@Gestalt -- I was wondering if you've ever tried butyrate supplements. I have high ammonia, and have read that in addition to the benefits you noted above, it also lowers ammonia levels.
I had some retroactive insight today.
When I first developed the nausea reaction to Candex, it hit me roughly 45 minutes after taking the capsules.
Using GI transit time estimates that would likely mean I had a severe candida/fungal infection in my upper small intestine. Instead of SIBO (small intestinal bacterial overgrowth) I likely had SIFO (small intestinal fungal overgrowth).
The fact that taking Resistant Starch only a few times cleared up the nausea issue is rather remarkable. Since RS does not ferment until it reaches the large intestine, it would seem that it acted as a kind of filter/mop and the fungus attached itself to the RS granules and was effectively swept out of my small intestine to the colon curing me of the ailment.
pH can drop up to two points in the first part of the colon (the cecum), and with the additional RS it would make it a nice acidic environment thereby inactivating and likely killing any fungi.
That's an interesting insight Gestalt. I've heard of SIFO but I'm not familiar with its diagnostics, if there are any. Do you plan to get yourself tested?
I've also heard dysbiosis (of bacterial or fungal nature) can cause imbalances between TH1 and TH2. And ultimately correcting the imbalance will yield the diminution of symptoms but that cannot be achieved before seminal problems, viz. dysbiosis, are corrected first. Unfortunately, but perhaps not surprisingly, an imbalance in TH1 and TH2 can encourage the development of dysbiosis, so its an issue which must be handled in tandem. I plan on checking my interleukin and hydrogen breathe levels to diagnose both soon.
This is the best thread ever.
The bigger picture looks a little clearer right now.
Would this: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undecylenic_acid be classed as a SCFA?
No, it is classified as a MCFA.
This is why MCT oil from coconuts are thought to be anti-fungal as well. Be warned if you take too much at once (like 1 tbsp) it can cause extreme nausea and intense vomiting. Happened to me, never again....
I took 15 capsules of SF722 daily for almost half a year. It seemingly did not help me at all. Just don't think it's powerful enough. I still have a skin fungal infection of Tinea Versicolor I need to get rid of....Maybe if I rubbed it on my skin..? Not sure what to do about that one. Even a 4 week stint of diflucan didn't work.
Re-posting this from the RS thread for future reference.
I was taking Bacillus subtilis for a while, as its part of the Threelac formula. It's known to be a potent anti-microbial...ironic because it's a microbe.
Amylase as a biofilm buster is a neat theory. Most of those fungal species in the above links though i doubt are found in the GI tract. It's interesting the amylase from the microbes breaks biofilm, but human saliva amyalse doesn't according to the one article.
However many Asians use the yeast Aspergillus oryzae to ferment foods and liquors. Also if you eat certain fruits you may get Saccharomyces cerevisiae or Saccharomyces boulardii.
My guess is you would have to take these with RS or regular carbs perhaps, in order to get the beneficial effects.
Thought this was interesting as well from one of the above links...
" Carbohydrate derived fulvic acid (CHD-FA) is an organic acid which has previously demonstrated to be microbiocidal against Candida albicans biofilms, therefore, the aims of this study were to evaluate the antibacterial activity of CHD-FA against orally derived biofilms and to investigate adjunctive biological effects."
I am going to re-introduce fulvic acid into my supplement plan again after reading this.
I've taken it off and on, but not for the long of a period. No benefit for me either. Or from any other antifungal except S. Boulardii and maybe Caprylic acid. But that doesn't seem to be doing anything either now.
Why do things stop working all the time with this illness all the time? It happens to me too. I see a benefit and get my hopes up and then it stops having the same effect.
It's happened that many times now that I don't really get my hopes up anymore.
Yep, it is very frustrating. I've had complete remission 3 times now only to relapse .
I've never gotten that much better.
What was it that did it each of the times and how long did they last?
Thank you for taking the time in explaining that Gestalt
Here: http://curezone.org/forums/am.asp?i=2052975 I just found Dr Ericbakker explains that
"many people with candida have found to have pH issues with there small intestine in particular"
"Unlike caprylic acid study's have shown that undecylenic acid works best is an predominantly acid environment"
"To make sure undecylenic acid works best in the small bowel, I always recommend a small amount of digestive enzyme like betain hydrochloride. This ensures the undecylenic acid works best where you want it to, in the duodenum and the ileum"
Thorn has now produced SF742 which includes betain hydrochloride
However you and I have had similar reactions(treatment resistance)to our yeast overgrowth with similar compounds(FiveLac/Diflucan/Serrapeptase)with next to no result. So I am hesitant to try this new version of SF722
I have also tried Terbinafine 500mg/day for six months which seemingly did nothing. The cream for topical use was effective on dermal application however after a period of time the infection stopped responding to it much to my frustration
As Terbinafine is NOT an "azole" it was at the time most favoured in a potential cure. Candida biofilm is incredibly difficult to penetrate with the currently available drugs. This is possibly the ONLY pharmaceutical with proven anti candida biofilm activity: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC127206/ along with possibly caspofungin. However access to these anti candida biofilm drugs are a little restricted(at the present time)
My knowledge in regards to RS and the other natural anti candida compounds/botanicals is rather limited, so I am here to learn and have found your thread VERY informative!
Hi @knackers323, I have another thread where I outlined the possible yeast connection. Briefly:
Biotin 300 mcg, lasted a week.
Super Thisilyn, lasted several weeks completely and then off and on for a few months.
Sacchromyces Boulardii, lasted 2 weeks.
I posted the other thread to get ideas on the mechanism and whether it is related to yeast/Candida or not. It seems to clearly be related to gut microbiome/small intestine health.
300mcg Biotin is a tiny dose. I take ten times that.
It was enough to put me in complete remission for a week. I tried doses up to 10 mg afterwards to no effect.
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