Dr. Bateman answers IOM questions from the community: Part 1
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Candida & Biofilms - Theory & Protocol

Discussion in 'Fungal Infection (Yeast, Candida)' started by Gestalt, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    It's quite likely I am attributing too much to candida, however every benefit seen by people taking RS I have also got from taking Candex; a fungal wall digesting enzyme formula. I don't believe that is a coincidence since we are talking about gut flora which yeast/fungi like Candida are a part of and cohabit along with bacteria.

    In regards to people with Diabetes and/or supposed "healthy people" there is currently no accurate method to test people definitely for candida. Even stool samples do not accurately reflect the microbiological state of the small intestine viz analysis as you already know. A huge number of people hypothetically could have fungi cells outnumbering bacteria in the small intestine and no one would be the wiser. Sometimes I strongly suspect this is the case in that in the modern world nearly everyone has taken antibiotics at one point or another in their life and given fungi such as candida the opportunity to take over.

    The issue with diabetics is more complex/distinct in that it is an insulin issue as opposed to a strict blood glucose one. The needs of the body will always be greater than that of candida in terms of absolute quantity of glucose needed meaning insulin resistance could effectively mask this effect versus a normal non-diabetic person. Also there is a matter of degree of infection. Not everyone with candida will have it necessarily penetrate the gut membrane.

    I admit I could be wrong. I like your HPA axis theory. The gut has potentially hundreds of species of microbes and the added complexity of hormonal/neurotransmitter and genetic interactions make it largely a black box as you have pointed out. I am merely speculating/rationalizing based on my experience as are most people who are trying to figure out how RS actually works. Hopefully more people trying, experimenting and looking into this will help solve the mystery.

    My hunch is that RS may be even more effective than Candex at eliminating candida. I am already at 2.5tbsp of RS a day and today I had no nausea form taking 2x Candex capsules.

    Next thing I wonder is might the enzymes in Candex or Syntol or any digestive enzymes containing amylase's interfere and digest RS? I saw Dr. B G takes syntol...

    I have taken the liquid before and it didn't work for me. I take these capsules and they do the trick.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2014
  2. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    Every benefit? Has Candex lowered your fasting blood glucose by 10-15ng/dl (or more)? Decreased glycemic response significantly (blunting massive BG spikes) within in minutes of consumption? Increased butyrate production? Improved adipose tissue patterning? Improved metabolism and fat burning? Increased satiety? Improved colon pH? Bloomed beneficial bacteria in the gut? Improved previous damage to colonocytes? Improved mucosal integrity?

    Did you really experience all of those benefits with Candex?
     
  3. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    I never measured my blood glucose so I wouldn't know specifically. I can merely tell you how I subjectively felt. In the case of all the other variable yes, when you begin ridding your body of an invasive fungi, it makes room for other beneficial bacteria to thrive. Candida competes for room and nutrients.

    Again from what we can tell other than removing bad things, RS merely helps bifido bloom. It's the bifido and other probiotics which do the real work.

    I would be interested to see if a person who has a normal balanced intestine, has NEVER taken antibiotics in their life and ate minimal RS food what would happen if they added RS in significant quantities to their diet? Would it infer the massive benefits to them as it appears to us western/modern people? If babies have up to 90% bifido as a ratio in their intestine, it makes me think we are basically born with a bifido bloom. It's only when we add antibiotics and all manner of other things down the line we screw up the original balance.
     
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  4. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    Well, this is probably the most powerful feature of RS. I see no reported evidence that Candex blunts massive glucose spikes. I see that diabetics have taken Candex before, but no one out there has noticed such an awesome phenomenon.

    So, basically you are saying that killing of a pathogen makes room for beneficial bacteria. Sure, that makes sense. I get it. However, that doesn't make RS and Candex the same thing. They both get to a similar destination with different mechanisms.

    Well, you are oversimplifying things. If you have SIBO, taking RS appears to pull bacteria out of the small intestine and take them to the colon to be dealt with. That has nothing to do with blooming bifido. And RS can be used to shuttle virtually any diversity of flora to the colon — not just bifido. But yes, you are correct that, in a nutshell, RS is a little piece of concrete that manipulates pathogens and feeds bacteria to do the dirty work. But, blooming bifido is just a part of it — it's not everything. All of that diversity it contributes to plays a major role. RS is a prebiotic that can bloom a diversity of flora. Research suggests that having a diversity of flora is one of the most important factors to gut health — the minority flora is just as important as the majority flora, and RS (along with other fermentable fibers) supports both.

    Nope. Jeff Leach of the American Gut Project has recently demonstrated that you can drastically alter your gut flora in as little as a few days just by changing your diet.


    So, you can't keep their gut flora in good shape just by avoiding antibiotics. You need to consume fermentable inulin, FOS/GOS, FODMAPs, NSP and Resistant Starch if you want to feed and maintain a good diversity of gut flora.

    In other words, you need to provide your gut flora the prebiotics they need to thrive if you want to keep them "bloomed". This is known as the "prebiotic effect"...

    See: http://pmid.us/20920376

    And that's why RS is so powerful. It's a prebiotic that also happens to act as a rapid shuttle bus to the colon.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
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  5. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    Here we go...

    Carbohydrate Elimination or Adaptation Diet for Symptoms of Intestinal Discomfort in IBD: Rationales for “Gibsons’ Conundrum”
    International Journal of Inflammation Volume 2012, Article ID 493717, 19 pages doi:10.1155/2012/493717

    While the review has nothing to do with Candida, per se, it talks about the paradox of providing prebiotics — particularly through "maldigested carbohydrates" (i.e. resistant carbs) — to the flora to in order to counteract gut pathogens that would normally feast on these carbs. While the review doesn't come to any concrete conclusions, it gives us an idea of how, complex carbs — rich in fermentable substances — might be a better approach than starvation of the microflora.
     
  6. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    I am cross posting this from the RS thread. I think I finally figured out the mechanism of why consuming RS and eating prebiotic foods is beneficial for fighting Candida:

    For those who want to see the studies and detailed scientific evidence that shows how Candida's growth gene "switches off" in an acidic environment:

    Alkalinity promotes Candida overgrowth

    For those who want to see why eating prebiotic foods — including RS — promotes SCFA production and therefore an acidic environment in the colon:

    American Gut Project: Sorry low carbers, your microbiome is just not that into you

    EDIT: Holy crap! Not only does the SCFA production and acidic environment stop Candida growth, but the most potent Candida and antimicrobial fighting bacteria, such as Saccharomyces boulardii actually thrive in an acidic environment — provided they are in place and are fed prebiotics. Jeff Leach was right!
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
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  7. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    You left out the improved sleep, pooping, and vivid dreams :).
     
  8. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    I remember a time when I was supplementing with Lactobacillus acidophilus nightly and had great improvement in terms of well being especially at night. I think this may have been why; the acidic/lactic acid connection controlling the candida form. I think this may be perhaps the critical factor in controlling candida.

    Actually candex helped me on those measures as well except vivid dreams. I think the vivid dreams may come from increased serotonin production which converts into DMT like compounds at an increased rate. DMT and it's analogue tryptamines are the most powerful class of hallucinogenics known to mankind.

    I was trying to figure out which specific bacteria species RS feeds that produces/and or influences serotonin production. Anyone know?
     
  9. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    No idea. But, given the high I've experienced from RS, I would say that you can just find the right bacteria from eating a few fermented foods and taking an SBO — with RS to give them safe passage to the colon. Getting the seeds are pretty easy (many people probably already have them). It's the feeding and cultivating of those bacteria that is the tricky part for most people. RS just happened to make the cultivation part easy for me.

    If Candex is "fibre digesting enzymes, cellulase and hemicellulase" do you think that perhaps those enzymes perhaps play a role in making the prebiotics in fibrous food more available to gut bugs? In that case, it too might have a beneficial prebiotic effect.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
  10. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    I doubt it, Candex is supposed to be taken away from food.
     
  11. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    Makes me wonder what would happen if you took it with prebiotic foods. :)

    Interestingly Wikipedia says that the company's explanation on how it supposedly works doesn't even hold water.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candex#Way_of_function

    I don't know much about it, but it sounds like the company doesn't even really know what it's dealing with.
     
  12. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Hi Gestalt;

    Here are a couple of articles regarding microbes and neurotransmitters:

    http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/09/gut-feeling.aspx

    http://www.nature.com/nrn/journal/v13/n10/box/nrn3346_BX1.html
     
  13. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    Actually, it seems that enzymes last in the body for a few hours, usually until they are used up. Hmmm...
     
  14. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    The wikipedia entry is a joke and whoever wrote it seriously has it in for candex and takes serious liberties with the "science". If you read it closely you can see it's almost entirely speculation. In one sentence it talks about candida and in the next about yeast in general leading you to erroneous conclusions. It takes the logic that since no peer-reviewed science exists therefore it does not work....right. Since those need to exist in order for something to work!? Look it up on iherb or amazon, the anecdotal evidence is overwhelming no matter what the "science" says. Personally I haven't taken anything that has given me such dramatic improvement in such a short period of time. And I have tried hundreds of supplements. Something about it works, incredibly well.
     
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  15. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    I'm sure it works. I'm just saying that the advertised mechanism sounds unsubstantiated. For all we know, it works with a different mechanism than what they are telling people. At least with RS we have a few decades of research telling us how it works. If you are going to compare the two, we have more clues about RS to work from.

    It's not a criticism. Most of the hypotheses for formulas for dealing pathogens were created before anybody knew about the intricate role of the microbiota.
     
  16. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    I disagree. This is the same kind of thing as I was getting at before. For example we don't know how RS modifies insulin/glucose levels. Similarly we don't know how Candex kills candida. All we have is theories both ways. At least insulin/blood glucose levels can be measured, candida levels can not be with any degree of accuracy other than subjective well being.

    Sadly I think it's an issue of money. There is more money in pharma-drugs than natural alternatives.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
  17. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    Hold the presses. I think we may have a good theory now. This was literally just published the other day...

    This could very well explain how RS improves glucose control.
     
  18. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    Looks promising. I like the picture.
     
  19. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    But isn't that interesting? It really all seems to come back to SCFA production. That and the effect of RS providing safe transport for bacteria to the colon.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
  20. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    Quick update in regards to my experimentation with RS. I started January 11, so it's been almost 3 weeks. I started off slow with 1tsp working my way up to 3-4tbsp in a week. So the last 2 weeks I have been on 3-4tbsp a day and had only a single two day break to do a reset because gas started becoming excessive. The reset fixed that. For the most part gas has not been an issue so I'm pretty happy about that, although at times it can be annoying. There are some major changes taking place within my body and results so far are mixed.

    First the good. TMI has never been better, I seem to have better gut motility, body temperatures have stabilized more and I saw some improvement in endurance at the gym. My blood glucose subjectively seems better and I am not waking up starving on the verge of fainting. I can also go longer between meals before my glucose begins to crash which barely ever happens now. The biggest benefit though has been that it has completely eliminated the nausea symptoms from taking Candex. So it would appear that RS is having a very beneficial effect in terms of either getting rid of Candida or creating conditions in my gut so it doesn't thrive, or helping with the elimination die off detox process.

    I was really stuck at a plateau there for a while and RS seems to have shifted things for me in terms of the yeast issue. I also stopped taking my nightly two capsules of yucca and feel I don't need it anymore. So thus I feel the RS has helped resolve my ammonia issue. Also anxiety has been reduced and my body feels a bit more relaxed.

    My dreams also became incredibly vivid and it feels like I am more conscious in the dream state. It seems almost hyper-real where as before my dreams had a foggy/hazy/exhausting quality to them. The improvement in dream quality is a good reason alone to take RS in my opinion.

    Now the downside. While my dreams seem exceptionally clear in their quality, it seems to have had a reverse effect on my waking life. I have a real hard time getting out of bed and feel super tired upon waking in the morning after having slept 7-8hrs. My sleep has become really deep but I almost seem stuck there. I feel tired and lethargic all day long, and if I nap my body get's a lot of pain all over (not that that's new) as in an over-sleeping symptom. It's almost like the RS is working TOO well and it feels like I am drugged with melatonin. I have generally low energy all day (as in chronic fatigue) physically and mentally.

    So on the candida side and other body metric's there is definite improvement however in terms of CFS I feel worse off.

    As mentioned in the Resistant Starch thread I have as of 2 days ago also begun taking B.Bifidus and B.infantis with my RS. This morning I woke up feeling somewhat rejuvenated and less groggy since starting the experiment. My body also has less generalized pain. So I have hope that maybe the introduction of those two strains will remedy this fatigue.

    I have no intention of stopping, rather I am planning on increasing the dose to 6-8 tbsp a day and persisting with multiple types of probiotics. I feel that gut re-balancing may take time....as in months, and based on the many improvements all ready seen hoping that my gut and body will sort itself out and my fatigue symptoms will disappear.

    My mother had informed me I was on antibiotics as an infant. I also took them multiple times a year growing up whenever I got sick. SO there is no doubt in my mind that dysbiosis is something I have had for a very long time. This led to a proliferation of bad gut microbes fungi and bacteria, which I am only beginning to resolve. The increased fatigue I feel may be from the die-off of bad guys as the RS feeds the good guys. Also there is no doubt many metabolic factors, hormonal and neurotransmitter factors that are being influenced as I go through this process. It amazes me how much gut microbes influence these things.

    My gf has also been on the RS experiment with me. In her case she is on the whole much more positive and happy than before. Prior to meeting me she had been on anti-depressants and the RS seems to have helped her to re-balance her neurotransmitters. She is also enjoying the vivid dreams.

    Note: For the time being I will consider the Candida issue more or less resolved and will post future progress updates in the Resistant Starch thread as I feel that the CFS I have is probably beyond the scope of mere candida and is more relevant to that thread.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2014
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