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Can you help me with the dosage?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by joshi81, Jan 29, 2014.

  1. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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    Hi, i wanted to ask if the persons on fredd's protocol or anyway on a methylation protocol can tell e the dosage of methylb12, methylfolate, carnitine fumarate, adenosilcobalamine they starded with and the dosage they then have stabilized on just to have an idea.
    I bought all the supplements and now i really don't know how to procede..i mean i'll start one at time starting from methyl and adenosil then i will add methylfolate and carnitine but i don't know the proprotion among these supplements.
    @Freddd can u advice me? in your opinion how much of each supplement i should start with? and ther eis a proportion among b12-methylfolate and fumarate to respect?
  2. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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    argh no advice for me :(
  3. traray

    traray

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    Ha, sorry the experts haven't weighed in yet.....I will tell you my experience with L-Carnitine furmarate. I started on one Dr.s Best 855 mg capsules twice a day and worked up to 4 a day, taking one each time I took methylfolate. I began experiencing extreme, and I mean extreme stomach upset, cramping, bloating and worse...I thought this might be too much potassium, I posed the question to @Freddd and @howirecovered, they gave some great advice on a lot of different things, but Freddd's advice to only take one LCF in the morning with my TMG and methylfolate on an empty stomach stopped the upset.

    I haven't done the genetic testing, but I can tell you that each time I increased methylfolate I felt MUCH better. I hope to do testing soon! Until then, go easy (I didnt!) and adjust the amounts of things one at a time if you run into a wall.

    Good health!
  4. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Josh,

    I would suggest starting with an all around selection of vitamins and minerals which will be needed in greater quantity as soon as your body starts healing. Things like, A, low-dose b-complex suitable for twice a day without folic acid or CyCbl, C, D, E, zinc, magnesium, calcium, omega3 oils, lecithin (or variant). There are many opinions as to which brands or types may be most effective.

    Then the question comes up do you have anxiety. If you have anxiety and hyper responses, one needs to start with crumbs of AdoCbl and MeCbl, of the 5 star brands.

    If not having anxiety, then a 1mg Enzymatic Therapy or 1/4 of Country Life Methyl B12 5mg, 1/4 capsule or tablet of Anabol Naturals AdoCbl and 1/4 of an 800mcg Metafolin 4 times a day is a good starting place for many. There is often a brightening of everything neurological as the nerves start working better than they have in years. Pains intensify, things look brighter (dimming of vision is a b12 deficiency symptom), sensations that have been ignored for years become new and obvious again. Often there is a significant increase in energy as the AdoCbl gets into the mitochondria. If a healing startup occurs then often on about the third day a person starts to feel really sick. This is typically a combination of two induced deficiencies, low potassium and donut hole paradoxical folate deficiency. It is dangerous to ignore the low potassium and very unpleasant to ignore the low folate. These can be taken to a balance point were those symptoms go away. The low potassium symptoms can go away in hours and also return in hours without another dose. A lot of people find that the need for potassium can jump up from 1200 to over 2000mg a day and adjustments need to be made as things progress. The low folate symptoms can start being relieved in hours and a person may end up needing anywhere from maybe 1600 to 30,000 mcg a day depending upon a whole lot of factors. Here is a list of the more common symptoms. Many people might have several from both varieties. Which exact ones though vary tremendously from person to person.

    After a comfortable balance is reached and the brightening has become normal, then carnitine, usually L-carnitine fumarate (90%) but for some ALCAR (10%) can be titrated. Again, if a person has anxiety microtitration would be suggested, starting at maybe 100mcg per day divided in 3 doses with the Jarrow liquid carnitine. Otherwise a 1/8 of a capsule might be started with. LCF can be very energizing and it is the item that has a very direct dose response curve and is most easily controlled. any people find they do better with several doses without food a day instead of one larger one in the morning. Bodies differ.

    Version 1.2 12/08/2013

    Group 1 – Hypokalemia onset. Symptoms may appear with serum potassium as high as 4.3. May become dangerous if ignored. Considered “rare” with CyCbl (Cyanocobalamin) it is very common with MeCbl (methylcobalamin) and AdoCbl (adenosylcobalamin) and less so with HyCbl (Hydroxycobalamin).

    There does not appear to be a clear order of onset. The order of onset varies widely from person to person but many appear consistent for each episode for any given person. There tend to be more and more intense symptoms as it gets worse. Some people have ended up in the ER because of not recognizing the symptoms.

    IBS – Steady constipation, Nausea, Vomiting, Paralyzed Ileum,

    Hard knots of muscle, Sudden muscle spasms when relaxed, Sudden muscle spasms when stretching , Sudden muscle spasms when kneeling, Sudden muscle spasms when reaching , Sudden muscle spasms when turning upper body to side, Tightening of muscles, spasms and excruciating pain in neck muscles, waking up screaming in pain from muscle spasms in legs. Muscle weakness

    Abnormal heart rhythms (dysrhythmias), increased pulse rate, increased blood pressure

    Emotional changes and/or instability, dermal or sub-dermal Itching, and if not treated potentially paralysis and death.


    Group 2a - Both

    IBS – Diarrhea alternating with constipation, IBS – Normal alternating with constipation


    Group 2b – Either or both

    Headache, Increased malaise, Fatigue



    Group 3 - Induced and/or Paradoxical Folate deficiency or insufficiency

    These symptoms appear in 2 forms generally, the milder symptoms that start with partial methylation block and the more severe symptoms that come on as partial methylation block gets worse or very quickly with methyltrap onset.

    Edema - An additional thing I would like to mention. I would never have found it without 5 years of watching the onset of paradoxical folate insufficiency and trying to catch it earlier and earlier and to figure out what was causing it and to reverse it. For me the onset order goes back to the day of onset now with edema and a sudden increase of weight. I noticed that within 2 hours of taking sufficient Metafolin I would have an increase in urine output.


    Old symptoms returning

    Edema

    Angular Cheilitis, Canker sores,

    Skin rashes, increased acne, Skin peeling around fingernails, Skin cracking and peeling at fingertips,

    Increased hypersensitive responses, Runny nose, Increased allergies, Increased Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, Increased asthma, rapidly increasing Generalized inflammation in body, Increased Inflammation pain in muscles, Increased Inflammation pain in joints, Achy muscles, Flu like symptoms

    IBS – Steady diarrhea, IBS – Diarrhea alternating with normal, Stomach ache, Uneasy digestive tract,

    Coated tongue, Depression, Less sociable, Impaired planning and logic, Brain fog, Low energy, Light headedness, Sluggishness, Increase irritability, Heart palpitations,


    Longer term, very serious

    Loss of reflexes, Fevers, Forgetfulness, Confusion, Difficulty walking, Behavioral disorders, Dementia, Reduced sense of taste, bleeding easily




    Group 4 - HyCbl onset, degraded MeCbl onset, MeCbl after photolytic breakdown onset.

    Itchy bumps generally on scalp or face that develops to acne like lesions in a few days from start.
  5. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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    Thanks @Freddd you're always so helpful just one last thing...when you said 4 times a day you meant just methylfolate or also enzymathic therapy and the others so it would be 4 tablets of enzymathic therapy a day, 1 full capsule of adb12?
  6. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    The 4 times a day was for potassium and l-methylfolate, but separately from each other. I take the Metafolin an hour before the potassium.
  7. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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    Thanks fredd and thanks @traray ... traray are u still titrating? or did u reach a steady state? how much of each supplement do u take now? and do you take also b12?
  8. ross

    ross

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    Hi Fredd,

    I was wondering which thread(s) and posts would be the best starting point to learn your protocol to figure out which supplements to take and when to take them. You have so many posts that it is impossible to read them all.

    What are your thoughts on using acetyl-L-carnitine instead of acetyl-L-fumarate? I live in Canada, and it's not always possible to get all the brands that you recommend.

    In addition to the ME/CFS I have terrible GI issues due to small intestine bacterial overgrowth and am about to embark on a course of treatment for it, so it would be an opportune time to start your protocol after I have healed my gut.

    Thanks for taking the time to share your experience on the forum and help others.

    Is your health now 100% like a 'normal' person? Do you still take all these supplements on an ongoing basis or were you able to discontinue them once you were well?

    Ross

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