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can someone clear up the folic/folinic acid controversy?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Aerose91, Jan 1, 2016.

  1. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    I know some people have problems with vegetable folate (folinic?) and others dont. Supposedly the MTHFS enzyme is involved but i haven't heard that conclusively. What happens if we take in too much dietary folate? Since i can take up to 20 mg methylfolate and not feel a thing i really dont know what to think. Is eating vegetables not advised in general?

    Thanks for any help
     
  2. armyswat

    armyswat

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    Hmm.. try adding P5P (B6 - not pyridoxine which is synthetic).

    And by any chance, do you take Folic Acid? it will not help, take only Methyl Folate (aka 5-MTHF). Folinic Acid and Methyl Folate have different functions. Folinic acid repairs DNA, new cell growth.. if you have hair falling out, so folinic acid could build it back and etc.. replace your gut lining cells and etc.. Methyl Folate for methylation or something like that.. better sleep.. less depression and etc..

    Try increasing the dose to 50mg, not 50 mcg. you could buy here http://www.amazon.com/Active-Folate-Optimized-5-methyltetrahydrofolate-Pharmaceutical/dp/B0169DNKD0/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451731035&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=methyl folate 10000
    and take 5 capsules of it..

    I've ordered and in few days it will arrive, i'll start with 50mg doses, or 20 and increase it slowly to 50..

    Always Use B6 (P5P - Pyridoxal 5 Phosphate) + Methyl Folate + MethylCobalamin for best results.

    Eating vegetables will not help you so much since we use synthetic man made soil (fertilizer), and it lacks all the minerals and etc.. today you need to eat 26 or 27 apples to get all the iron from 1 apple you ate 50 years ago. and plus the pesticides will deplete some vitamins.. and we also use GMO today which is even worse...

    SUPER IMPORTANT EDIT: OH DAMN IT! do not buy this CRAP! i'm so angry, i've wasted my money on this bullshit, they have lied here http://www.amazon.com/Active-Folate-Optimized-5-methyltetrahydrofolate-Pharmaceutical/dp/B0169DNKD0/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451731035&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=methyl folate 10000

    IT'S NOT FOLATE, it says FOLIC ACID! WTF! in the description they say folate but on the bottle it says folic acid! do not buy this bullshit, buy 1,000 mcg pure methyl folate...

    I've looked at it for a while and was.... hmmm why the heck FDA has approved it? they usually don't approve stuff that really works.. and then i saw folic acid.. PFFFFFT. fucking hell, now i need to re order methyl folate and buy many bottles of it... i didn't find powdered form :(

    I've sent a message to the company and waiting, but i think i should go to the lab and test it if it's really folate or folic acid.. if they say it's folate.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2016
  3. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    If it were me I would eat lots of vegetables (I do) and forget the pseudoscience about methylation. If there is anything at all in 'the controversy' I suspect it is to avoid artificial supplements and go back to eating food.
     
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  4. armyswat

    armyswat

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    Well, it will be really hard to fill up the vitamin tanks when the soil is depleted in the minerals. the plants are better with minerals rather than without. it severely lacks the minerals.
     
  5. BurnA

    BurnA Senior Member

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    In general I don't think I have ever heard anyone ever say not to eat vegetables.
     
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  6. armyswat

    armyswat

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    I don't say don't eat vegetables, but if you have severe deficiency of Folate or B12, It's impossible to reverse the deficiency with just eating conventional veggies or fruits.

    Unless you eat non GMO fruits/veggies, eat only grass-fed meat with no antibiotics or homrones, the soil is totally natural enriched in minerals and no pesticides, and drink pure clean water non chlorinated and without fluoride or other toxins or heavy metals and with all the important trace minerals. Had no vaccines at all which could seriously hurt absorption of minerals/vitamins.

    I can assure you that. I'm a raw food eater kind of, i eat only fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, whole rice, buckwheat, lentils, beans and similar stuff. no processed food, no GMO's or with pesticides (yes synthetic fertilizer because i don't know where to get non synthetic fertilizer veggies). and i don't feel difference in mood at all and still have severe blood test mineral/vitamin deficiencies, I'm already few months on this diet.

    and i eat like 4 huge salads with olive oil with all kinds of vegetables.. huge bowls.. so trust me.. most people don't even eat like me.. so eating few vegetables or fruits will not make a big difference with today's screwed up food.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2016
  7. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    My diet is and always has been impeccable and id much prefer not reduce vegetables but i know they contain folinic and some people cannot process that. Thats basically a big staple of @Freddd's protocol.

    @armyswat i have been taking methylfolate, p5p, adb12, mb12, b complex and everything else for over a year. I can take up to 20mg, not mcg of methyl folate and mb12 and not feel a thing. Ive never supplemented with additional folinic because im not sure about it. I also never take in folic
     
  8. armyswat

    armyswat

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    Try making a blood test to see what's out of balance in your system to feel better. focus on vitamin and mineral deficiency.

    Tell your doctor to check your Vitamin A, B (B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, B8, B9, B12), C, D (most important), K (also important, vit K and D3 must be taken together)
    If you take vitamin K so only Vitamin K2 MK-7 (Or MenaQ 7) and non GMO since it comes from natto soy..

    And also write on a paper all the essential minerals.. Magnesium, zinc, iron, Boron, calcium, chromium (important for the happy mood chemical serotonin), sodium, potassium, Phosphorus, sulfur, iodine, selenium, manganese, molybdenum, copper.

    make sure non of the minerals you take are synthetic or not active, if you want a tip I discovered by my self.. go here http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/drugsatfda/
    In search for example write folic acid.... if it appears there, it means it's FDA approved, means do not use it. if it's not FDA approved, then do use it (they usually don't approve the stuff that works or the healthy stuff)

    Note: you won't find there if you write vitamin B6.. but you will find there if you write pyridoxine and cobalamin or ascorbic acid and etc.. everything they approve is synthetic and not good for the health.


    Now if you take high doses of vitamins and minerals but don't feel mood changes and etc.. it could be a deeper problem. it could be that you're not absorbing the nutrients.

    Here's a list I wrote for my self for why you're not getting the nutrients or not absorbing.. before you go reading what's below.. note that stomach acid or also called HCl (Hydro chloride) or gastric acid.... is super important for absorbption of the vitamins and minerals.. if you have heart burn from acid touching your neck area and it hurts.. it means you have low stomach acid:


    Reasons:
    1. You're not taking enough of the proper foods or nutrients

    You may be not absorbing nutrents if you have:
    2. IBD: You may be not absorbing those things if you have in inflammatory bowel disease (IBD - Mayo:All digestive tract) or issues.
    (Symptoms: diarrhea, fever and fatigue, Abdominal pain and cramping, Blood in ur stool, reduced appetite, weight loss)
    3. IBS: Irritable bowel syndrome (IBS - Mayo:Colon) (Symptoms: Abdominal pain or cramping, bloated feeling, gas, diarrhea or constipation, mucus in stool)
    IBD vs IBS: Although the two disorders share similar names and some of the same symptoms, they have distinct differences.
    - IBD: Chronic swelling (Chronic intestinal inflammation)
    - IBD: Autoimmunte condition
    - IBD: Most common forms of IBD are 1. Crohn's Disease (Any part in digestive system) & 2. Ulcerative colitis (Colon)
    - Both: Still, a person who has been diagnosed with IBD may display IBS-like symptoms
    - Both: Most people with IBS will never develop IBD
    - Both: are considered chronic (ongoing) conditions
    - Both: It’s also important to know that you can have both conditions at the same time.
    - IBS: is extremely common (estimates that it affects up to 15 percent of the America) (about 25 percent of Americans complain of IBS symptoms)
    - IBS: People with IBS show no clinical signs of a disease and often have normal test results.
    - IBS: Some people will also experience upper right side abdominal pain without any other symptoms.
    - IBS: differs in the amount of stool produced.
    4. Celiac disease (Gluten intolerence)
    5. Low digestive function
    6. Low stomach acid:
    (Symptoms: If you’re having symptoms such as acid reflux, heartburn, burping, gas,
    bloating, or nausea after eating, then it’s very likely that you have a stomach acid issue).
    - People diagnosed with gastrointestinal issues, especially inflammatory bowel
    diseases, Celiac Disease or IBS, are at a higher risk of having stomach acid problems
    -* If you’ve made several diet and lifestyle changes and you’re still not
    seeing the results you want, low stomach acid might be holding you back.
    -* Proper levels of stomach acid are needed to adequately absorb many nutrients
    including minerals (iron, copper, zinc and calcium), vitamin B12, folic acid and proteins.
    - Achlorhydria or hypochlorhydria efers to states where the production of HCl in gastric secretions of the stomach is absent or low.
    Symptoms: Early satiety (Lisvoa), abdominal discomfort, GERD, weight loss, diarrhea, constipation, abdominal bloating.
    - low stomach acid (high pH) can lead to nutritional deficiencies through decreased absorption of basic electrolytes
    (magnesium, zinc, etc.) and vitamins (including vitamin C, vitamin K, and the B complex of vitamins
    - eatnakednow.com symptomps of low stomach acid:
    A. You’ve lost the taste for meat.
    B. You have a history (current or past) of a vegetarian or vegan diet.
    C. You experience belching (Gihuk) or gas about an hour after a meal.
    D. You experience bloating or cramps within an hour after a meal.
    E. You get heartburn or acid reflux.
    F. You have really bad breath even though you brush your teeth.
    G. Your sweat is stinky.
    H. You’re not hungry for breakfast.
    I. You’re hungry all the time, even when you feel full.
    J. You get sleepy after meals
    K. You have undigested food in your stools.
    L. Your fingernails chip, peel, or break easily.
    M. You have anemia that doesn’t respond to iron supplementation.

    7. You may not be able to get these nutrients across your brain blood barrier (My note here for you: should be a problem, this should
    Our brain is very selective to what we're getting into our brain. It's not going to let anything into it.
    _________________________________________________________________
    End of notepad text.

    Also...... do you have a mercury toxicity? it could impact the nervous system really badly, cause schizophernia and all kinds of neurological problems..

    You could have mercury toxicity if you eat a lot of large fish (larger than your frying pan), the bigger the fish the more methyl mercury it has, it's really dangerous, mercury is the second most toxic metal in the world. (You could eat fish that is no bigger of your pan, which has the least mercury)

    Or if you have amalgam dental fillings, the more the worse, each filling releases up to 15 microgram of mercury vapor, which gets inside your blood and from there to your brain and etc..

    And lastly.. and most important.. did you receive any kind of vaccine? they are the most dangerous things I know from anything else. it could cause any auto immune disorder, including IBD (Inflammatory bowel disease) which could be causing you to not absorb vitamins or minerals.

    It could cause cancer, autism, ocd, pandas syndrome, chronic fatigue syndrome, lyme disease, HIV, and all of these diseases listed here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoimmune_disease

    Vaccines contain nagalase, which is super dangerous.. when you have nagalase in your blood, your body can not produce body's natural Gc-MAF, the most effective thing versus any auto immune disease, it would reverse autism and shrink cancer tumors.

    Note: Gc-MAF is only if you have money to order it from sweden, japan or something like that.
    from https://gcmaf.se/ ......

    Before going straight to the Gc-MAF, you need a nagalase blood test (finding in the internet where ever you can do that test).

    Gc-MAF could be pretty expensive, i my self can not allow my self this thing because of lack of money atm.

    but if everything fails with filling up my vitamin and mineral tanks to optimal levels.. not the levels that conventional doctors tell, but higher than that, which people do much better when they have it. if all fails, i'll get the Gc-MAF if nagalase is high in the blood. later on.

    I'm atm waiting for my high doses vitamin powders (Way cheaper) from amazon to arrive.

    And another thing that I've discovered, the 5-MTHF or methyl folate you take could be, folic acid and not folate, like this one http://www.amazon.com/Active-Folate-Optimized-5-methyltetrahydrofolate-Pharmaceutical/dp/B0169DNKD0/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451752230&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=methyl folate 10,000

    Description says Folate and or methyl folate but the bottle if you check.. it says 5-methyl tetra hydro folic acid.....
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2016
  9. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    I've had to quit green vegetables. I found that vegetable folate (folinic) blocked folate uptake, pushing me to higher and higher doses of folate. My need for folate halved when I quit the veggies, and halved again when I began taking that folate sublingually, emptying the powder or tab into my mouth. Excess folate stresses my adrenals.

    Folate types: http://mthfr.net/l-methylfolate-methylfolate-5-mthf/2012/04/05/

    http://mthfr.net/folic-acid-awareness-week-2014-want-awareness-here-you-go/2014/01/08/
     

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