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Can SIBO cause or mimic symptoms of HIT, Mast Cell, CFS, Neuropathy, Brain fog and Inflammation

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Reno, Feb 25, 2017.

  1. Reno

    Reno

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    Can SIBO cause or mimic symptoms of HIT, Mast Cell, CFS, Neuropathy, Brain fog and Inflammation
    or is it just another symptom? to add to the long list.
     
    outdamnspot and roxnhead like this.
  2. Oberon

    Oberon Senior Member

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    Yes: http://www.siboinfo.com/symptoms.html

    Some have put there CFS in to remission by using Rifaximin. It does not necessarily mean it will work for you but the test is not expensive to complete so it wouldn't hurt to check.
     
    ljimbo423 likes this.
  3. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    Does olive leaf extract help w SIBO?
     
  4. Oberon

    Oberon Senior Member

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    The only naturopathic treatment for SIBO with an actual study behind it is Candibactin AR and BR: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4030608/

    Everything else would be just speculation, but really Rifaximin is the gold standard so if you do have SIBO and can afford it it's the way to go.
     
  5. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    I have found olive leaf extract helpful for sibo, although it is milder than other herbs like oil of oregano, berberine, and cinnamon, which I use every day. If you are sensitive to die off, low doses of olive leaf extract might be useful to get some traction. I agree with what @lakesarecool said about Rifaximin though.

    In fact, I am going to be taking a course of rifaximin, in a couple of weeks. Without a low carb diet though, I think rifaximin can be a very temporary reprieve from sibo. A long term low carb diet might be needed for many I think, to keep sibo at bay.
     
    ebethc likes this.
  6. Reno

    Reno

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    What test?
     
  7. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    Rifaximin is either on par or less effective than herbals, according the the studies in pubmed that I've seen... too sick today to look them up, but you can go to pubmed and search... I'm just not sure exactly which herbals
     
  8. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    You're right... I think part of the prob is that I haven't done the right herbs in the right combination and at the same time as low carb..I have SIBO-C, which may modify the treatment, too.

    I'm going to try Candibactin AR and Candibactin BR... I have a few questions, which you may be able to answer:

    • re additional herbs: some protocols add Allicin (or some Garlic product) + Interfase Plus to break up biofilms + Iberogast.. Do you recommend taking any of these in conjunction w C-AR and C-BR?
    • re length of protocol: 2 weeks or 1 month?
    • re diet: is "low carb" <100g carbs per day or <50g per day?
    thanks for your help.
     
  9. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    Looking back, that is probably (most likely :)) the biggest mistake I have made in the last several years when I tried to treat dysbiosis. I never put together the low carb diet with anti-biotic herbs for long enough, until just a few months ago and I am getting big improvements, because I have now.


    Re. additional herbs- Candibactin AR + BR are very powerful herbal anti-biotics. If you experience significant die off from anti-biotic herbs like berberine or oil of oregano you might not want to add in any other supps. If you don't get a lot of die-off from berberine and oil of oregano etc. then adding in interfase and/or Iberogast might be helpful, although I have never used them myself.

    I think it might be best to start off simple and see how you respond to the Candibactin AR + BR, then you can make a more informed decision on how to adjust your protocol from there.

    Re. the length of the protocol
    - I think it really depends on how well you tolerate the supps and how long it takes to respond to treatment (ie. feel better), which is very individual.

    Re. the low carb diet- It seems to me the most important things to not eat are starches, which really feed the overgrowth big-time. I keep my carb intake to 80-100gms a day (no starches). I have a routine now, which makes it very simple, no counting.;) The specific carbohydrate diet is a good one to follow to greatly minimize your starch intake and overall carb intake.
     
    ebethc likes this.
  10. Reno

    Reno

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    I appreciate all the information but don't you think you should start your own thread, none of this stuff answers my question.
    "Can SIBO cause or mimic symptoms of HIT, Mast Cell, CFS, Neuropathy, Brain fog and Inflammation"
     
  11. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    @Reno - I apologize for going off topic. I think the test being referred to is called a "breath test", to test for SIBO. Here is a link to more info.

    In my experience, as well as all the reading and research I have done in the last several years the answer is yes. SIBO can cause a "leaky gut" and a leaky gut can cause all of the symptoms you are asking about.
     
  12. Reno

    Reno

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    Breath test ok already did that, it how i know i have SIBO and why i posted the question.

    Wasn't sure what test lakesarecool was referring to test for Rifaximin or CFS or didn't understand that i have SIBO.

    Thanks for clearing it up. P.S. i have already tried Candibactin AR and Candibactin BR twice but don't recall the amount of starch or carbs, think i was eating sweet potatoes daily. I don't have many food choices so i eat what i can tolerate and for about a year it's been celery, lettuce, frozen beef, turkey or cod. I'll start the Can-AR/BR with your suggestions this time. Also wasn't aware i was feeling sick because of the die off, just thought it was the 'cure' that was causing it. I'll take detox clay and Takesumi this time.

    This is the protocol was following.
     

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  13. Oberon

    Oberon Senior Member

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    Definitely meant the breath test. If there was any really valid CFS testing I'm sure everyone on these forums would be ecstatic :) :).

    If your breath test was positive and you don't want to use Rifaximin then Candibactin AR and BR are the next best thing. According to SIBO Info this is the herbal treatments they use: http://www.siboinfo.com/herbal-antibiotics.html

    Also note that some people see more success combining Rifaximin with other things as seen in the treatment protocols here: http://www.siboinfo.com/antibiotics.html
     
  14. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    I use a ton of olive oil every day to make up for the calories I don't get from starchy foods. I take 2 tablespoons with every meal and 2 with snacks during the day, so that I get at least 2,000 calories a day.

    So if you need extra calories, healthy oils might help, like olive, flax, avocado, coconut, etc, if you can tolerate them. Have you looked at the specific carbohydrate diet? It is designed for people with sibo/dysbiosis etc.
     
  15. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    sound advice. I am afraid of a massive die-off; I did a round of Nystatin once and it was the worst... I toughed it out and finished the whole protocol b/c I thought I'd feel better afterwards (No pain, no gain!).... but NOPE... I felt exactly the same afterwards... Not even a little bit better, which would have been some indication that I was on the right path and, perhaps, needed to double-down. Unfortunately, it was just a painful waste of time.

    The allicin (fodmap free garlic) is for methane/constipated SIBO, so for me it seems important if I want to get out all the bad bugs. It's like if you have SIBO-C and you want to take the antibiotic route, you have to take neomycin (sp?) in addition to the Rifaximin.

    The Interfase is important, too, but I am wondering if I should add it later, say a week into the protocol?? Not sure; we'll see.

    Iberogast is optional at this point; I looked up the ingredients and they overlap w one of the Candibactins. If I had the money, I would have some on hand, but I don't so I won't.

    That's good to know.... "Low carb" means different things to different ppl, so thanks for a guideline... Why do you think SCD is better then FODMAP? Isn't FODMAP just he updated, new-and-improved version of the SCD?
     
  16. PDXhausted

    PDXhausted Senior Member

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    I'm currently trying to figure this out as well, it's hard to separate what's what. I had symptoms of CFS first, then years later developed SIBO, and now am recently dealing with mast cell problems. We also recently discovered mold in our home, so it's hard to say if the mast cell stuff is coming from the mold or SIBO, but it is definitely related to my gut. Anytime I take a probiotic I get not only bloating in my upper gut (presumably from SIBO) but also break out into hives and a rash all over my face (presumably histamine reaction).

    I will say though that when I initially got the SIBO, I had an added layer of fatigue onto my other symptoms that improved after taking rifaximin. Unfortunately, I'm still dealing with residual SIBO symptoms even after two rounds of rifaximin, oregano oil, and a round of nystatin.
     

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