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Can i treat mast activation without taking anything that affects stomach acid?

Discussion in 'Mast Cell Disorders/Mastocytosis' started by NilaJones, Jan 24, 2014.

  1. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    I have been trying to read the existing threads and understand, but brain fog gets in my way.

    My test results are in my sig. I have a lot of body pain, and it flares up when I eat a food I am allergic to or if I take niacin. I am thinking histamine looks like a good thing for me to address!

    I have a history of stomach problems that nearly killed me. After I survived, it took many years to wean my stomach off the PPIs and antacids. My stomach is doing well now, and I do not want to mess with what is working. Are there alternatives? What have other folks tried?

    Thank you so much :).
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2014
  2. camas

    camas Senior Member

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    Yeah, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. :) I can't tolerate any of the H2 blockers, so they aren't part of my regimen. Holy Basil is a natural H2 blocker and there may be others you could try. From what I've been reading treatment seems to be really individualized because we all have different triggers and responses. I'm just using small doses of Zyrtec and the occasional Benadryl when things flare. Also a low dose of Klonopin as a mast cell stabilizer. I think I've probably had the best results from following the low histamine diet in my signature. Others are finding that a low inflammatory diet works better for them than low histamine. It's kind of a matter of trial and error.
    Gloria H likes this.
  3. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Thank you, camas :).
    camas likes this.
  4. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @NilaJones, I've been having good results with royal jelly, quercetin, rutin. Mast cell expert Dr. Theohardies suggests also a specific product from olives, I believe called luteolin, which I'm thinking about trying. After seeing his video presentation July 2013 re recognizing and treating mast cell disorders, including re luteolin, I recently came across another vid re "brain allergy" in autism. Here he describes the mechanisms in the brain that lead to brain fog and other neurological symptoms, involving mast cells. I found it fascinating:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9QbZp3WcC1Q

    Here is his site w/ many articles and a few vids: http://mastcellmaster.com/

    Also lowhistaminechef.com is a very informative site. Yasmin sells ecookbooks. She also has a wealth of info, including how to choose probiotics that help w/ histamine, and don't contribute more. In the 2nd of a 2 part interview w/ MD Dr. Corelli(?), the MD talks about the uselessness of H1/2 drugs for preventing reactions. These don't work prophylactically, so there is no use taking them unless reactive.

    Vitamin C and calcium help eliminate histamines from the body. I take mine via footbath, so I can use the cheapest form of each (Ca carbonate, Ascorbic acid), with no stomach/gut involvement. Best to you, ahmo
    camas likes this.
  5. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Thank you ahmo :).

    I am currently doing diet screening for food allergies, and think I will try histamine diet next (but it will take a while to get through all the potential allergens -- I have found some, and eliminating them helps). Recipes will be very handy!

    For footbaths, what sorts of quantities do you use? Similar to what you would take orally, or more to account for dilution? Have you tried using anything topically, like magnesium 'oil' but with calcium, etc., instead?
  6. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Nila, I first started this routine when I was trying to deal w/ folate symptoms, and needed a lot. I loathed taking a handful of Ca lactate tablets, and also was using a lot of K+. I think the answer is that I take the same I would orally. Once I started using this method, I started taking all my powdered supps this way, mostly aminos. And I take the same amounts I would orally. I'm using typically 1 tsp C, 1 Tb CA; when detoxxing, 1-2 Tb C, 1-2 Tb Ca. I add my homemade mg oil. I was initially using mg oil by the dropperful, but now use 50 ml AM and 75 ml PM when nothing's happening. When I'm in a detox mode, like my current coffee enema routine, I'll use 2-300ml, w/ 1-2 Tb K+ gluconate. I've started using footbaths straight after my enemas, and also taking an extra royal jelly and rutin. I self-test for dosages. And now that I've finally understood how to read and respond to my symptoms, I've been in non-reactive mode for the longest period of time I can remember. Are you aware that MAO is not only the psychopath SNP (!) (see TED talk re violence and genetics), but it's also a high histamine marker. I believe it's about impaired DAO enzyme. I didn't appreciate this until recently. cheers, ahmo
    Gloria H likes this.
  7. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Wow, thank you ahmo, that is really helpful info!

    I have not heard the TED talk, but I am sooooo not a psychopath. Too much empathy and conscience, if anything ;). I do feel the MAO in that my emotional states seem to last a bit longer than other people's, and I take hours to fall asleep and to wake up. I had no idea it was related to DAO.
  8. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Nila, I too, have had the worst of being an empath! But I've also been overly reactive. Finally getting off gluten and dairy, getting in the right supps, especially minerals and methylation supps, have finally calmed my poor over-firing brain. Adding low dose lithium, per Amy Yasko, has been a huge help. I no longer burst into tears at every sad story. I didn't know there was a relationship w/ MAO and sleep. I've finally, during the last few months, gotten over a lifetime tendency towards insomnia. I can now go to sleep, stay asleep, and when I do wake up, go right back to sleep. I've been assuming it was because of better methylation, but maybe it's less histamines. wow. We're all becoming amateur biochemists! :cool:
  9. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Oh, well, I just made that up :). I mean it is pure speculation. I was just thinking, IIUC, MAO is about not breaking down neurotransmitters quickly. And so the sleep/wake thing, having trouble changing states, could be from that. Does it take you hours to feel fully awake in the morning?

    I don't have an over-firing brain, i don't think. But, for example, if I get angry (which is pretty rare), and then talk to the person I'm upset with and resolve stuff, there is a time period after it's resolved where I still feel all adreneline-ified. I think of this as, 'I have to wait for the angry chemicals to get out of my bloodstream'. It takes 30-60 minutes, I think. It's been a long time since I got mad like that. But there is this delay between what is happening and what I am feeling.


    I am so glad you are sleeping well :). It is so important!
  10. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Now that my cortisol's not a mess, I'm fully awake at dawn. This used to be the time I especially had an over-firing brain. Pre ME/CFS I had to get up straight away and exercise to get away from my mind. I spent my adult lifetime trying to overcome not my speedy brain, as it just seemed normal to me, but to achieve some deep sense of calm. From meditation to every sort of therapy and bodywork, kinesiology, etc. Now that I'm biochemically balanced, I'm calmer than I've been in my life. cheers, over and out for tonight. ;)
  11. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Wow that is very interesting. You knew something was off, it sounds like.

    I am tired too. Sweet dreams :).
  12. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    @ahmo Can somebody tell me what is the lethium for? I have been trying to understand the MAO++ which I am and don't know what to do about it. I think I have histamine issues more than sadness. I do not get sad, I do get mad and I mean MAD very easily when tired. How can I adress that?
  13. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @Inester7, the lithium is to help balance our too-rapidly recycling neurotransmitters. Yasko recommends 1/4 capsule. I later found out that the capsules she sells are much higher dose than the ones I've been using, Orthomolecular 10 mg. But this low dose, 2.5mg, has made a huge shift for me. I also get MAD easily, or at least I did. I've always been overly reactive in the context of my primary relationship. Getting my minerals right has helped a lot, + methylation. And getting rid of the toxins generated by gluten and dairy. After years of seeking help for my issues, I finally distilled them down to Irritability, agitation, low tolerance of frustration. But it would still be another decade and a half after understanding this that I would find any relief.

    Histamines: My first understandings came from roosclues.blogspot, where histamines are unmasked as an underlying issue in the child's autism type behaviors. This is a very user-friendly site, where you might find some 'Aha' moments. Since then I've gotten a lot of info from lowhistaminechef. From knowing only that I had major skin outbreaks, that sometimes if I took a commercial anti-histamine my non-specific discomfort would ease, I'm now immersed in understanding these mechanisms. From lowhistaminechef I found info that helped me change my probiotics to ones that aren't histamine producing, and specifically anti-inflammatory.

    I eat a non-hist diet, which is extremely limited, as I'm also low sulfur/thiol. Lysine, ornithine, buytrate help eliminate histamines. When I mentioned lysine in another thread, Christopher had an agitated response to it. He later reported that he thought this was due to some other deficiency. I just say this as a caution. I've used lysine off and on for many years, some when I was really unwell, and never had any sort of negative response. Sorry, these are my sulfur/ammonia supps.

    Most basic, Vit C + Ca help mobilize histamine out of the body. I now take these via footbaths, so I can use the cheapest forms (ascorbic acid, calcium carbonate) I also take quercetin, royal jelly, rutin to combat histamines. I've been doing serial coffee enemas lately. Afterwards I always self-test for needing extra of these supps. I still don't know why, but at least for the first time I can manage these reactions, instead of falling into a crisis. all for now. cheers, ahmo
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2014
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  14. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    Do you have the exact name of the ted talk I cannot find it.
  15. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Northcoast NSW, Australia

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