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Can excess of methylation cause drye eyes ?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by daniariete2000, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    My guess would be you had a lot of folate cycle flux and THF which in one sense is a good thing since it means folinic acid can be accessed and converted for you. But too many folates relative to b12 could lead to a pseudo methyl trap and way too much THF in the cell which would normally be diverted for storage as folinic acid. But if you are taking folinic acid, the storage 'site' is filled up so you end up with over-conversion of histidine and other effects of high THF levels. Raising b12 and increasing cofactors for conversion to methionine would tend to oppose such effects of high THF buildup.
  2. Victronix

    Victronix Senior Member

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    I'm taking about 7000 mcg methyl B-12, but only a small amount of folate (~50 mcg). Some think this may cause problems for me, but I suppose the only way I could know if that were true would be to experiment, which I don't have the luxury to do at this point. I can't cut the B-12 dosage, since I need it (have a B-12 deficiency and my arms start going numb when I raise them at lower dosages), and I don't want to start on hundreds of mcg of folate -- which I accidentally did at the start of this trial and was rendered totally non-functional for a weekend on one 400 mcg dose.

    In any case, I was labeled a "sensitive" even before trying methylfolate at all, so difficulty with taking almost anything is sort of what I'm used to. I get the side effects from antibiotics that only 5% get, for example.

    I'd be interested to hear a theory on why a higher dose of B-12 could lead to problems with starting off on a low dose of methylfolate, though, if you have one.

    Interestingly I got the dry eyes most intensely with folinic, but not methylfolate, in which I just get them slightly from time to time. The dosages were about the same.
  3. Calathea

    Calathea Darkness therapy

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    I can't remember who was talking about taking 99mg potassium and titrating up, but that's a pointlessly low dose. It's only 0.25% of the RDA. Buy yourself some low-sodium salt from the supermarket and put that in your water, if you want more potassium. I use 1/2tsp to a 27oz/800ml water bottle, and it tastes surprisingly nice. I need the sodium, though, which is why I'm taking a low-sodium salt that's an equal mix of sodium chloride and potassium chloride. I'm not sure what it would taste like if it were potassium chloride alone (you can buy no-sodium salts in America, though not in the UK).

    I've only just begun taking methylation supps, and actually my eyes are less dry. I think that might be because I increased my dosage of EFAs (I'm on Opti3) a week beforehand, though. I was taking plenty of potassium before all of this, so I know that doesn't prevent dry eyes for me. Of course, my optometrist said I don't actually have Dry Eye Syndrome. My water and oil production are a bit low, but I don't have any dry spots on my eyes. He thinks it might be more of a nerve pain issue. And B12 is meant to be good for nerve pain, right? I'm also taking lecithin as part of the methylation protocol, and I gather that's good for dry eyes as well.

    The best website for dry eye problems is the Dry Eye Zone.
  4. dbkita

    dbkita Senior Member

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    To be clear I never suggested in my post that high amounts of b12 (provided they are the right active forms) are bad. I was responding to why significant doses of folinic acid may do what they did to you.

    That being said a number of peopke on here contend there is so sort of balance between methylfolate and mb12. For my own part as long is there no methyl trap and sufficient amounts of both I don't think there should be a real problem. As far as sensitivity goes, methylfolate is identical to what your body makes regardless of snps. I wonder if sometimes people are categorized as being sensitive to something when their body is deficient and the substance is a rate-limiting factor. When the substance is added suddenly reactions turn on and their biochemistry is shifted. The shift is interpreted as a bad thing when in fact the aggrieved substance is important.
  5. Victronix

    Victronix Senior Member

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    Thanks, that's good to know. I agree.
  6. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Hi Victronix,

    That's interesting…the first time I've heard that connection. Do you know for certain that it was the folinic? Were you taking other meds or anything else that may have made your eyes dry? Also, how much folinic were you taking?
  7. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    I don't understand your analogy at all. Histamine causes inflammation. inflammation of tear-secreting glands reduces tear production. IMO, high histamine would cause dry eyes, not the other way around.???
  8. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    And I am histamine intolerant (dietary histamine), cannot break down histamine, methylate fine, and have dry mouth. So maybe I don't agree with you on that interpretation, either.
  9. Victronix

    Victronix Senior Member

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    Yes, it was folinic, but I don't recall the amount. It was actually in a children's vitamin, so it was not a particularly high amount.
  10. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Thanks for your reply. I've been reading about histamine and methylation, and it looks like mehtylb12 may help -- or to put it another way, if one is taking folates without methylb12, then histamine will increase, which 'might' lead to the inflammation, that 'might' be causing at least part of the dry eye issues. As Dbkita said above: "But too many folates relative to b12 could lead to a pseudo methyl trap"…


    And then of course there's the potassium, or lack thereof, that could play a role too……..
  11. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Regarding fatty acids, there are studies that link a lack of GLA -- from evening primrose oil, borage oil, etc -- to dry eyes.

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