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Can detox Herx cause permanent damage to brain etc?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Chris.S, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. Gestalt

    Gestalt Senior Member

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    I'm very impressed with everything you have tried. If you can figure this thing out, you might make some major discoveries. The fact glutamine isn't helping is rather perplexing...you could try larger doses like 30g...or try different brands, making sure they are in the micronized form. Personally I use a veggie source from fermented beets PVL brand.

    Have you done the yasko genetic methylation panel? I saw they had an RNA for leaky gut...might be worth a try
    http://www.holisticheal.com/leaky-gut.html
    There must be some other tissue/intestinal lining repair supplements out there as well....

    I know the peptopro is a hyrolyzed casein, but it is quite unlike standard whey/casein proteins. It dissolves clear in water....its that fine, and supposedly is >80% di and tri peptides. Regular casein is very,very different and sits in your stomach and forms a goo for hours, so yea i would not recommend that. I have issues with the regulars as well. I cant find anything more pure than peptopro though.

    The hydrolyzed collagen has a very skewed amino acid profile. Also I can't quite figure this out....but supposedly its between 2000 - 5000 daltons peptides.

    A single amino acid averages 110 dalton...so I am assuming a dipeptide would be about 250 daltons and a tri peptide around 400 maybe. Therefore your body still has to work quite a bit to break the hydrolyzed collagen down...where as with the peptopro its mostly negligible going straight into your blood. There are glutamine peptides as well...but those are sourced from wheat/gluten which makes me leery.

    I wish you well in this journey. Your very adept at figuring things out.
    Chris.S likes this.
  2. Charles555nc

    Charles555nc Senior Member

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    I had the "brain tingling" that you got from ALA. I would stay away from it, because thats not a detox imo. I have alot of the same symptoms that you listed as well.

    Edit: to be clear I think ALA is the most dangerous of the glutathione boosters, because it boosts intracellular glutathione not just body gluthatione, and the brain tingling is most likely nerve cells running out of methylation factors.

    1. You dont detox barely anything until you get on large doses of vitamin C. I use about 16 grams of sodium ascorbate.

    2. Glutathione MASSIVELY depletes methlyation factors, which causes the crash you call a detox. Avoid NAC, ALA, and Glutathione. Replace the methylation factors. Methyl folate, Methyl b 12, adenosybl b12, and 200mg Sam-e. Take a b complex without folic acid (methyl folate isnt the same as folic acid). If you continue doing ALA or NAC, lower the dosage and take breaks (like every other day, or only twice a week) and take methylation factors WITH the glutathione boosters to limit the methylation trap. I feel amazing for about 4 hours on glutathione boosters, and then crash HARD.

    3. Repairing nerve damage, try acetyl l carnitine (methyl folate helps also).

    4. Avoid taking selenium/melatonin together. I got MS type symptoms, like limb weakness. Now i take them both, but seperated completely by at least 2 days.

    5. Maybe try fish oil supplements for your fatty acid deficiency.

    6. Try lugols iodine to boost your immune system.

    7. Try lysine, glycine, and proline supplements to block viral infections, build up your body.

    8. A small amount of vitamin A with about 10,000-20,000 iu of beta carotene a day.

    9. DMSA is a chelator like ALA and also builds up glutathione, so I only do it for a single day, 100mg every 4 hours (max 5 times total a day), and then take a week or 2 break, while building up methylation factors again. DMSA removes alot more heavy metals than ALA or even EDTA. Although ALA does get the metals in the brains more efficiently. DMSA even removes uranium, tin, zirconium, just all sorts of bad metals. Edta suppositories help with improving circulation, and remove different metals as well (iron overload, aluminum, lead).

    IM me if you have a question or have some advice to give me, since we both react simularly to Glutathione, perhaps you can give me some tips back :D
    jeffrez, Chris.S, place and 2 others like this.
  3. Chris.S

    Chris.S

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    Wayne: Thanks. Your detox drink sounds good. I have tried / occasionally do try bentonite and some other things you list in that drink. I of course have to feel somewhat worse for it though! Even a small amount bentonite in the water. I have no idea, it seems even the mildest things give me reactions. Cant tolerate yeast or AC vinegar though, never could. When people tell me they take these things, I then know they are much stronger than me in certain ways, and lucky for it! :) Im like a marker for things that hurt the super sensitive.

    Coffee enemas definitely raise glutathione s transferase. Not sure how much they raise gluta itself, but def do the enzyme. As the Gerson institute claims up to 700%. I think its right. Coffee enemas have a solid track record for detoxing. Ive done them lately just a small amount though. I still feel shaky and weak off one, for most of the night. Ugh!

    Hi Mimi, thanks. I think at this point things like FODMAP are not going to matter a great deal. I eat alot of blended stuff and not much food in general. I dont even get bloating and so on any more. But thats not good IMO, bloating is a sign things are moving and working. Its like my guts are at a stand still down there, really just not doing much at all. The only difference I can tell between any foods, are drinking elemental only, or drinking water only, as opposed to ANY food at all. Both the former are the only things that dont cause serious immune and inflammation flares. Only problem is elemental flares infections, so hard. Ive had a few days off them now and my skin on my back is really coming down. however im once again getting no where near enough calories or protein. *sigh*. You're sure right on the rice & chicken thing. That would really settle the immune system. Im just so damaged with my gut that I cant tolerate any meat or protein foods any more without massive muscle pain and brain problems. Its not an immune thing either, I think its gotten to be a severe liver detox impairment thing, not being able to break down meat/proteins, therefore they become toxic instead. Its the same with end stage liver failure patients. I'd not be suprised if that's where my liver is heading (if my heart holds out that long :/ )

    Gestalt: Thanks. I'm impressed with how much i've tried too, but extremely unimpressed with the level to which I cannot tolerate it all! I think the reason the large doses glutamine and so many other supps don't help much is because the gut lining isn't the number 1 issue (though very significant).. but the very stuck liver is. Stuck with little to possibly no bile coming through. Extremely low detox. Flares up with so much pain. If the liver is really struggling, especially if no bile flow is happening & its jammed up with sludge, then no amount of nutrients for other issues are going to do a great deal. Digestion is almost non existent. I know because i've been taking all sorts of 'the best stuff' over the years and none of it has really done a great deal, or I just don't agree/process it well. See some people are similar in the aspect that they dont tolerate so many things, but when they add GLUTATHIONE, all of a sudden all those good supplements work, and help! And they can even tolerate some helpful drugs if need be too. What a miracle that would be to feel.

    Haven't done yasko tests, but have considered. Problem is I feel im running out of time and resources, as Im going down pretty fast. Its so so very hard for me to focus on what im meant to be doing, I dont even know any more, as my mind is very scattered and severely fogged most of the time. Only thing I do really is email people/drs and on forums here when i get the small chances. I fear if my brain goes down too much thats it, wont be able to keep researching etc. I feel like my blood brain barrier is BROKEN, and toxins just flood through my brain daily. Apart from when Ive water faster long enough then things slowly start to feel semi ok for a short time.

    I've actually considered water fasting but im likely to weak for it, and dont have much weight to lose thats for sure. But some have said to me it could cure/repair alot of things. I have no doubt it could if I COULD hold out to do it for long enough, seeing as how good i feel after one day of it. My brain comes back, energy in my muscles, strength, vision improves, all of it. Then my blood sugar crashes or something, ugh. And I would be risking it greatly.. if I lost another good deal of muslce & weight which is so sparse now, and then started eating again and was the SAME as before, unable to eat much at all, I could never get that muscle back bceause im so weak and unable to eat. So its very very hard to know what to do.

    Peptopro dissolves clear? Interesting. I guess its not much to lose by trying it. I just know im so very intolerant to all whey and caseins I ever try. Goatein was sposed to be great for dairy intolerant people, but it was horrid for me, huge muscle pain etc and that was years ago when i was heaps better than now. Weird about the collagen protein. its one of the only forms of protein that barely gives me any reaction, and actually sits nice on my stomach. All others are heavy and uncomfortable. I know its not a complete protein source though.

    Charles, thanks for the detail. Yeap ALA I discovered later is not good until you've done alot of other groundwork detoxing. Didn't know that about it and methylation. Most people say that if ALA causes brain tingling its a sure fire sign than it's moving mercury around in the brain. Scary. Because its one of the only chelators that can actually move mercury FROM the brain. Hence they use it in the more final stages of mercury detox. I used big doses too earlier last year. Big brain tingling, didnt realise it was ALA till i stopped it. Tingling stopped couple days later.

    1. Vit C: Yes indeed! I have been the biggest C fan and preacher since 2001 when I first got onto 6-8 grams a day, and it helped tremendous amounts of things. It's like it "took over" the job of glutathione for me, literally helping every aspect of function and detox. however, to my extreme dismay, in 2009 or early 2010 i think it was, I developed kidney stones after a good teaspoon of sodium Asc powder. Blood in urine, then later excrutiating pain took me to ER where they did a cat scan and found multiple small renal calcli stones. I didnt need anything except wait to pee them out (painfully), however I stopped C and waited for the symptoms to be gone. They were, then I tried another teaspoon. Sure enough, gravel and kidney pain back again :( I was so so very upset.. vit C had been my literal lifesource for 9 years 'till that point. From then on I could only tolerate 2-3g a day, which has no where near the effect of 6, 8 or 12g I used to have. If you or anyone knows of a way around this it would be extremely helpful, though I dont know if there is one. All forms of C do it. I currently take about 4g a day and some random days start getting a slight stab. Wish I could have a permanent canula in my arm and do IV C 3x a week. I even have a script for IV C and can buy it but im not good at putting in canulas, and its very exhausting setting it all up.

    2. Yeap I take Methyl folate, Methyl b 12, and Sam-e already. I can only tolerate about 12.5-25mg Sam-e about 2 out of 3 days. It helps many things, it always has. Another thing I cant take enough of though because of migraines and other problems at 'normal' doses. I used to always say sam-e 'saves my life' beacuse of the drastic difference it made when I took it. but as it has gone, have toelrated less with time, and now its effects are not as strong/good and it takes longer to work. Liver is just struggling more & more. Some reason b complex also causes liver pain. Takes a good 8hrs before i feel its benefit. It has given me headaches for many years now, but i still take it infrequently beacuse it helps my brain etc after a long processing time. Yeap, i basically cant tolearte the NAC etc at all. Though yes after 1-2 days i get the lift from it. Dont know if its worth 1-2x a week dosing, or if thats damaging.

    3. Acetyl L carnitine unfortunately makes me feel irritable and not right. Probably liver cant process, like many things.

    4. I didnt tolerate selenium recently, it was the life extension combo which had selenoglutathione in it too, which may have been a reason why. Melatonin has given me a 24hr hangover for years now, it used to work to put me to sleep but the intense brain flatness for 24+ hours was always horrid. I am so brain 'toxic' now that im in almost a permanent state of extreme fatigue and inability to think/focus barely ever, except my small moments, or with water fasting.

    5. Have started fish oils again. Have never really agreed with me, but no fats do. I probably dont process them well at all and it could cause damaged fatty acid free radicals in the body, not sure.

    6. I have Iodoral Iodine tabs, and occasionally take 1/4-1/2 a tab. it does help quite a few things including brain, body heat, energy etc. But its very limited and again, if i take it days in a row it starts causing problems including body and brain tingling, headaches etc.

    7. The collagen protein I take contains large amounts of lysine, proline etc for (trying to) build tissue. I should add some lysine again yes.

    8. Vitamin A? Mm, I recently had carotenosis earlier this year from drinking too much carrot juice (very yellow hands & feet) which only diminished when i stopped all that and went on the very low allergy diet. Not sure im too deficient or whether extra woudl help. I take green juices daily of cos lettuce, celery and parsley, these should have BC in them.

    9. That's interesting re; DMSA. I was planning to start it after (if i can) getting amalgams removed via the Andy Cutler protocol. Not sure if i can get my fillings done being so weak. Barely being able to walk to the kitchen, im not sure how i'll get to the dentists, wait, sit in chair to get work done with all the prep and stress etc. Seems impossible, despite the fact that I know how badly I need it done. Do you know if you can take DMSA with amalgams in? Everyone says not to including AC. A friend is actually sending my some edta suppositories. Just hoping I dont get a seriously bad reaction, as ive heard much less sick people than me can do so.

    As you can see my predicament is insane! And i've tried soo many of these things already to no avail. I just wish to God above, that I could find the missing link in my particular case as to why all this is so very difficult, with seeming road blocks to every path of healing i persue.

    Thanks again for all the support, hugs all. ~Chris.
  4. Mimi

    Mimi Senior Member

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    Hi Chris,

    I just read a bunch of your posts over on CureZone. It sounds like you are doing quite a lot, but continue to weaken. You also expelled some good-sized parasites - they look like some kind of flatworm - the common ones are beef and pork tapeworms. And you asked about the big rash you have on your back as well as your foot which isn't just acne.

    Chris, I first want to make one suggestion. And that is, don't do anything that makes you weaker. If choline makes you weaker, stop taking it. Your body may not be able to process it. If you can handle TMG, don't take more than a few milligrams. If enemas make you weaker, stop them. Enemas are hard on the body, as are colonics. And for now, please don't do a liver flush. Liver flushes take a tremendous amount of chi (vital energy) and you don't have any to spare right now.

    Parasites are a big, big deal that drain your vital energy by drinking your blood and consuming your chi. They can make you exhausted, give you neurological symptoms, and cause rashes just like yours. Getting rid of parasites is also a big deal. It takes a lot of energy and you will need support. It's important to find a doctor who is familiar with treating this - that would be an infectious disease specialist, not your PCP. For example, if you have a tapeworm that has created cysts, or cysterci, in your brain, then when you start taking praziquantel the cysterci hatch and that can lead to brain damage. So your doctor has to know to give you corticosteroids at the same time, or to use albendazole instead - depending on the doctor's judgement. Your work up will need to therefore include an MRI. If you have cysterci, their location will explain many unusual symptoms.

    At the same time, I would suggest that you get energetic support by visiting the absolute best acupuncturist you can find. Find a senior practitioner, and negotiate with him or her if the fees are too high for what you can afford. But don't see anybody who's just gotten out of school. I've been to one of the best acupuncture schools in the West and know what I'm talking about. A Five Element style acupuncturist will unblock and balance your energy. My own acupuncturist, who treats a lot of ME/CFS patients, did this and it helped right away. But whatever style your doctor does, just make sure he or she is highly trained and highly experienced. They say it takes 40 years to get good at Chinese medicine, and I have personally found this to be true.

    Since you have parasites, you need to take the bull by the horns and get yourself educated. Curezone is great, but the information is scattered. Wikipedia is helpful and so is PubMed. Parasite Rex by Carl Zimmerman is good background reading, and will give you an appreciation of the menace that you face. But given how sick you are, I would strongly counsel you to make a phone call to an infectious disease doc right away. Your life could depend on it...as I'm sure you know.
    Sparrowhawk, jeffrez and Wayne like this.
  5. Charles555nc

    Charles555nc Senior Member

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    Edta chelation should break down the calcium stones in your kidneys, Sodium Ascorbate shouldnt effect your kidneys, I guess unless you are massively potassium/magnesium deficient, so eat a couple banannas a day and take a magnesium supplement and see how you feel.

    I use detoxamin which are harder to find and expensive, thus why I only use one a week. http://www.worldwellnessstore.com/detoxamin-1500-mg-30-suppositories.html?___store=default

    Ascorbic acid is too acidic and calcium ascorbate (buffered vitamin c) is too much calcium (kidney stones?)...so I hope you can get back on the sodium ascorbate later.

    Dont forget to take 500 mgs of lysine, proline, and glycine, 3 times a day, to fight viruses and build up your body!

    You could also try and get a doctor to put you on valtrex and valcyte for epstein barr and cmv infections, respectively. But be sure you get yourself built up before trying them, so you get the most benefit.

    If you have night sweats, 3 weeks of Famvir reduced mine by 98%.

    Hope this helps.
  6. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Excellent post Mimi. Thanks for taking the time to articulate some very good points.

    Chris, regarding the parasite situation. I just did a post yesterday about how a local friend used MMS to clear out his parasites and completely eliminate his stomach and GI problems. Here's the part about MMS:

    HERE'S A LINK to the full post.

    Wayne
  7. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hi Chris,

    I was wondering if you're familiar with fat soluble vitamin C (Ascorbyl Palmitate). Here's a blurb from THIS WEBSITE: A friend of mine's daughter read about it in an autism book and started giving it to her own autistic child. It was claimed to have the ability to cross the blood brain barrier and detoxify the brain. Two days after starting her son on it, he called her Mommy for the first time.
  8. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Tundras of Europa
  9. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    omg, parasites? Yeah, you need to get rid of those pronto. Mimi's post is so good wish I could Like it twice. Don't do anything that makes you weaker is very good advice. I wouldn't rationalize anything away, like "it's detox symptoms," but would just totally avoid anything you can that makes you feel worse.

    My experience with coffee enemas is that they can make you feel really good for the rest of the day (or bad, in your case), but after long term use, even if only once a week or so, they can really zap you, probably from draining adrenals.

    If you know you have parasites, it really does make sense to start there, esp. if you can't get amalgams out now.

    If eating is making you feel bad, try to stick to foods that don't bother you as much, even if only a handful. I don't think not eating is the best thing even when someone is hale & hearty! And if you have no energy to start with, it can be really draining.

    You've said you've tried all kinds of C - have you tried Ester-C? Supposedly it produces a lot less oxalic acid, reducing the chance of stones. If not, it might be worth a try since you respond so well to C.

    Good luck, I hope you can find something to give you a leg up. When you find that, keep doing it and build on it from there. One step at a time!
  10. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    Just another note - I was completely wasted in bed sleeping/crashing for 20hrs a day for months after toxic exposure. Skin had turned gray from lipid peroxidation, I lost 20 lbs in about a week as all the damaged fat cells were flushed out of my body, and for a while I thought I literally was going to die. After that initial period, I was just totally wiped & sleeping most of the time, for a couple months.

    I started rebounding the next DAY after having 10 amalgams removed in one visit. In fact, during the car ride home, I was so exhausted that I slept in a kind of "twilight" most of the way, but I could feel deep down that something major had happened. My allergies all improved considerably from then on, too.

    So don't assume you will automatically get worse from having amalgams out. A lot of people who are really sensitive and being drained by them get an immediate response as the porphyrins that are being bound by the mercury and urinated out are now available to the body to provide energy again. And with the obvious liver issues you appear to be having, taking that burden off of the constant assault from the Hg vapors you're breathing could make a big immediate difference. Too bad you couldn't take some milk thistle or other herb for support just now, that would probably really help. After the amalgams are out, however, you might be surprised to find you tolerate more of those kinds of things, which would really accelerate your healing.

    Without the root cause addressed, can only take a shotgun approach, but another idea since you have candida, fatty acid deficiency, low energy metabolism, etc. is large doses of coconut oil. Do you tolerate that, or are the salicylates too high? The medium-chain triglycerides (MCT) could bypass some of your energy blockages and perhaps give some fuel while also whacking down some of that candida.

    If you don't tolerate it, you might be able to get just pure MCTs like bodybuilders or whoever uses. Some d-ribose might also help just get you through, and perhaps some plain amino acids to make sure you're getting your essentials.

    Eating sardines might also help with the fatty acids, supposedly those are low enough on the food chain that mercury issues are negligible with them.I am super mercury sensitive, as I said, and I seem to tolerate them fine. The omega-3s also seem to help with energy by reducing some inflammation. Even if over the long term they could be slightly mercury toxic, I think in the short term the benefits it terms of energy & nutrition would far outweigh the costs.

    Really hoping you can find something to start giving you a boost! Keep at it, I'm sure you'll hit on something to build on pretty soon!
  11. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Wow Jeffrez, that's quite an extraordinary testimonial -- thanks for posting your experience. I would assume you must have had a dentist who knew how to protect you from the toxicity of amalgam removal. When I had mine removed, I started out doing one at a time (had about 12 total). Even with one replaced and 11 or so remaining, I could feel a shift over the next few weeks. After getting the second removed, I had the same experience.

    I then switched to a different dentist who had extensive experience removing old amalgams, and who talked me into doing three at one setting. Whether he didn't know how to protect me as well, or for whatever reason, I became very ill for several weeks afterwards. Undeterred, I finally recovered enough to remove the rest of them, plus several metal crowns. I don't think I would be alive today had I not done this toxic metal removal. Removal of the nickel laden crowns were almost more significant for me than the amalgam removal.

    Wayne
    jeffrez and Mimi like this.
  12. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    Wow, that's quite a story yourself, I can see you definitely relate. I feel the same exact way you do: if I hadn't had the mercury out, I question whether I would even be alive now. The difference in before and after was so immediately pronounced and obvious - and so obvious in retrospect to see the source of many health problems, including bad allergies, that started when the fillings began going in - that when people question amalgams being toxic I just have to laugh and shake my head. There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that they are, zero doubt. It's beyond a tragedy - it's literally criminal - that the ADA has been allowed to get away with poisoning so many hundreds of millions of people on such a mass scale of propaganda, denial and misinformation.
  13. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Just thought I'd mention, that when I had my amalgams removed, there was decay underneath almost all of them. If that kind of decay continues unabated, it can lead to major stuff that could necessitate expensive crowns and/or root canals. Also, I sent the following to my brother a couple years ago to encourage him to consider that some of his (minor) depression may be related to his own amalgams. I thought the last paragraph was particularly interesting. Here's the link: http://herballure.com/HotTopics/MyMercuryStory.html
    Mimi and jeffrez like this.
  14. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

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    That is so like my own story that it's spooky, Wayne. Very sorry you, I or anyone else had to go through any of that. When I think of the lives being lost to depression, shyness, lowered IQ, loss of potential, lives that people are struggling to live through with severe allergies, asthma, and other health problems, all b/c the ADA has not wanted to take responsibility for their crimes against humanity, I can barely contain my indignation.

    I hope dentistry continues moving away from toxic mercury, even if for reasons they don't want to admit. At least people's health will be better in the future w/out carrying that huge toxic burden. Creating a toxic waste dump in people's mouths that they have to carry around with them their whole lives - how medieval and totally insane!
    Wayne likes this.
  15. Mimi

    Mimi Senior Member

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  16. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Well put Jeffrez! Here's a revealing (and sobering) video of how these toxic waste dumps in people's mouths damage the brain (4 1/2 min.)

    How Mercury Causes Brain Neuron Damage - Uni. of Calgary
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  17. Mimi

    Mimi Senior Member

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    That's really scary, Wayne. Thanks for posting. I'm going to pass this on to our local BACFS group.

    Curiously, the homeopathic remedy that dramatically healed my fevers and sweats a few weeks ago was Mercuris solubilis. Based on muscle testing, I also now take Dentox, which is a homeopathic heavy metal detoxifier, along with chlorella and selenium. And this is 12 years after I had all my mercury fillings removed with highest safety protocols!
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  18. Mimi

    Mimi Senior Member

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    Hi All,

    After I did an intense anti-parasite protocol this spring, my health collapsed. I had terrible brain fog, fatigue and IBS-D along with the fevers, chills and sweats. In the first time of 18+ years with CFS, I was housebound, alone and nearly helpless.

    But now I think I know what went wrong. When parasites die off, especially intestinal ones, they release a lot of toxins and through off the gut environment and flora balance. They get the toxins from our diet, our metabolities, and the metabolites of pathogens hidden inside of them. The also produce large quantities of ammonia, and may themselves be toxic inside.

    Since I had a severe infestation, I think the parasites (small roundworms that looked like Trichuria) stored a lot of mercury from my fillings going back 20 or 30 years. That mercury would have been methylated by the bacteria, making it even more dangerous. So that's probably why I got the temperature instability: from mercury poisoning as the mercury got re-released into my gut. And that's probably also why the Mercuris solubilis 200C was so amazingly effective for my fevers.

    But besides that, I think I just figured out a whole different piece. My lower abdomen, especially along the bottom colon, has always been cold, and more so whenever I get an attack of IBS-D. Well, anaerobic bacteria flourish when the aerobic bacteria count goes down and they ferment at lower temperatures than anaerobic bacteria. Bifidobacteria counts are low in people with ME/CFS, as well as Lactobacteria which support the growth of the Bifido. And when you don't have enough strains of Bifido and Lacto, you can't absorb many of the same nutrients that PWME are known to lack. Just have a look at your fingernails - do you see ridges? These can be a sign of malabsorption.

    [Note that these include the B vitamins that are required for methylation. Doing Rich Van K's simplified methylation protocol made a huge difference for me from the very first day I took a quarter dose of the NHF multivitamin with TMG. I had so much energy I had to radically cut back my cortisol, thyroid and aldosterone prescriptions in order to sleep.]

    I think it makes sense to take high-dose Bifido and Lactobacteria to replace what is lost as long as you avoid the D-Lactate producing strains (see the last link below). And by high dose, I don't mean the usual 1, 5 or even 50 billion cfu doses, but 100 to 800 billion cfus per day. These are available from www.customprobiotics.com. The owner's name is Harry and he's a chemist who knows gut cultures and developed his products to help people with gut problems after healing himself of them. Look for his D-Lactate Free product, or ask for a custom 9-strain mix that is D-Lactate free.

    I'll post again after I try this myself, but from what I've been reading, I think this should heal up gut issues, food sensitivities, anxiety and brain fog. And I've noticed that when my gut is happy, my energy is better, too.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC252320/?tool=pmcentrez - Bifido metabolism of specific sugars
    http://www.cfids-cab.org/cfs-inform/Hypotheses/logan.etal03.pdf - lacto and bifido and CFS
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964729/?tool=pmcentrez - survey, includes ref below
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19567398 - Dr. Kenny D. Meirleir coauthored this one

    Love, Mimi
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  19. Mimi

    Mimi Senior Member

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    Ashland, OR
    Hi Rich -

    Have you seen anything in your studies on the relationship between malabsorption caused by dysbiosis and deficiencies that lead to methylation problems in people with ME/CFS?

    Mimi
  20. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Ashland, Oregon
    Thanks for your excellent post Mimi. I described my "detox formula" earlier on this thread, which contains bentonite clay and which I like to have in my GI tract at all times for just such occurrences as you describe. For me, I never know what's going to precipitate a sudden release of toxicity in my body. My most recent strategy of starting on MMS again will likely create some increased level of toxicity, and it gives me a peace of mind to know I have something in my body that can help "mop up" some of this. Your references to homeopathic remedies to assist with detoxification is something I've not considered before, but will now be doing so. -- Thanks again.

    Wayne
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