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Can anyone explain TH1/TH2 shift and possible drugs to alter it?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Bunchy, Apr 23, 2012.

  1. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    agree with quack watch, i think its simon wessel who runs that site
     
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  2. Waverunner

    Waverunner Senior Member

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    I'm not a fan of quackwatch either but the site at least tries to back up their claims through studies. Here's another article/site, done by a surgical oncologist.

    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/would-you-like-a-liver-flush-with-that-colon-cleanse/

    ""We conclude, therefore, that these green stones resulted from the action of gastric lipases on the simple and mixed triacylglycerols that make up olive oil, yielding long chain carboxylic acids (mainly oleic acid). This process was followed by saponification into large insoluble micelles of potassium carboxylates (lemon juice contains a high concentration of potassium) or soap stones.""
     
  3. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Tundras of Europa
    Astragalus looks promising as an agent capable of shifting the immune response back toward Th1:

    [Modulatory effect of Astragalus membranaceus on Th1/Th2 cytokine in patients with herpes simplex keratitis].
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15015443/

    [Regulatory effect of astragalus injection on Th1/Th2 cell function in patients with cervical cancer].
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21275166/

    Effects of Astragalus membranaceus in promoting T-helper cell type 1 polarization and interferon-gamma production by up-regulating T-bet expression in patients with asthma.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17361521/
     
    Helen likes this.
  4. Xandoff

    Xandoff Michael

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    I think it is important to remember that "many" of us BEGAN our Th1-to Th2 shift in childhood. I was a severe asthmatic with 65 allergies. I am told that this weighted my immune system to Th2 to begin with. You add major life stress and some type of a viral assault (I have a partial empty sella). I read a M.E. Scottish Study that studied children with ME from an early age of kids who missed around a half a year of school and who grew up to have ME. This fits me. XMRV positive in 2010 and Nagalase levels 1.90 in April 2012, I am hoping to begin GcMAF in June. Thank you all who contributed to this thread.This is just my take on the "SHIFT".
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From the Cheny notes on this thread: Researchers have demonstrated that most CFIDS patients end up stuck in Th2 mode. This has several consequences. When the Th2 system activates, it blocks the Th1 system. This suppresses the Th1 weapons, particularly NK function. Accordingly, there is also an increase in the Th2 weapons - the white cells and antibodies. Most notable is increased antibody production. Dr. Cheney said that if you measure antibodies to anything a CFIDS patient has ever been exposed to, they will very likely be elevated. (At this point he drew small arrows beside the "weapons": They pointed down on the left side to indicated suppression / lower levels; and they pointed up on the right side to indicate activation / higher levels.)

    Cheney notes that other problems ensue. Patients get into trouble on both sides: they overreact to things on the right side and under-react to those on the left. When they are Th2 activated, they no longer have the defense mechanisms to keep dormant all the things they caught in the past. They cannot suppress or control them anymore, and the EBV, chlamydia pneumonia, CMV, etc. reactivate. The yeast also begins to appear.

    The only defense against being eaten alive at this point is RNase L. (For more information about RNase L, see The Three Phases of CFIDS and other articles in the Cheney section of our website.) RNase L cannot kill any of these things. It only stops them from reproducing. According to Cheney, "It's a line in the sand saying 'No more replication', and it waits for Th1 to come and kill them. But Th1 never comes. RNase L sits there and grinds away, possibly going up and down as the pathogens activate and reactivate. But they never get wiped out. RNase L holds the line, waiting for the cavalry that never arrives."

    While it is valiantly trying to hold the line, it is also chewing up human messenger RNA, inhibiting all the enzymes in the body, disrupting protein synthesis, and generally making patients miserable. As RNase L grinds away, it eventually shifts into "after-burner" desperation mode - the more powerful and deadly low molecular weight form discovered in CFIDS patients by Suhaldonik.
     
  5. Charles555nc

    Charles555nc Senior Member

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    People refuse to try the flush just once...yet give their opinion on how useful it is. What sense does that make? I cant possiblely gain anything by lying about how good flushes are. I didnt mentition a brand for most of the products listed, so I cant be getting "a kick back".

    And Quackwatch is the biggest garbage site, full of garbage studies, by special interest parties. Quakwatch=misinformation site. If you dont trust their site, why are you quoting them? Anyone, anywhere can claim "a study" was done and showed that their competitors are "quacks" or "discredited" (which means absolutely nothing). I am pretty sure chronic fatigue syndrome was considered "a mental issue" on their site at some point.

    The biggest joke is that somehow olive oil and lemon juice= neon green stones lol (half of the stones Ive gotten out are actually brown btw). You can flush without lemon juice at all and get the same results. BOOM, disproven theory.

    There was a "study" at one point that claimed everyone who voted republican was a racist (not on quackwatch). Dont trust random studies by people who often have HUGE conflict of interests. Adults have to think for themselves now. The age of trust is over lol. If your doctor says "its all in your head", do you quit trying to get better? Or do you get a 2nd opinion?

    I had multiple chemical sensitivities, all throughout child hood. Im also XMRV positive. GcMAF made me crash pretty hard, I wish you better luck Xandoff.
     
    AbbyDear likes this.
  6. Xandoff

    Xandoff Michael

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    Thanks Charles555NC!

    I will keep you posted on the GcMAF. You had MCS as a kid, that must have been awful. I had 65 allergies and at 6 years old I took allergy shots that were made up of everything I was allergic to. I continued this till I was 13. I used to get three shots a week, then two a week and then one a week. I am know longer allergic to all those things, and I out grew my asthma because my lungs got bigger! I was def Th-2 weighted.
     
  7. hixxy

    hixxy Woof woof

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    I concur with the early development on Th1 -> Th2 shift. I develop Eosinophilic Esophagitis in my early teens, but looking back, I had problems before this as well sensitivity wise.

    Eosinophilic esophagitis is that horrible disease a lot of babies are born with these days where they're allergic to pretty much every food. This is pretty much me at the moment.

    hixxy
     
  8. Charles555nc

    Charles555nc Senior Member

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    I begged my sister not to vaccinate her kid right away (directly after birth) but she did anyway. Now he has eyesight problems and is allergic to breast milk.

    Vaccinations increased by 3x times as much since the 1990s alone. Lots of heavy metals and infectious contaminates in vaccines.
     
  9. hixxy

    hixxy Woof woof

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    In Australia they're trying (may have succeeded?) to take away all public medical benefits to those who aren't vaccinated, essentially forcing parents to vaccinate their children?

    I haven't been keeping up with this, so I'm not too sure what the outcome is.

    hixxy
     
  10. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    madietodd and heapsreal like this.
  11. Bunchy

    Bunchy

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    Finally refound this thread - interesting discussion.

    Thanks Rich for explaining in detail the TH1/TH2 shift - I understand it better now.

    Some good ideas here that I may run past my immunologist and others that I can try for myself.

    Exhausted so can't write more today but a massive thanks for all the input from everyone. I'm starting to learn a lot on this forum :)

    Love Esperanza x
     
  12. Marco

    Marco Old blackguard

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  13. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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  14. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    Some more thoughts for this thread. I've recently had my Vit D tested and it has come back quite low (30). The problem is that whenever I try to supplement it I have a strong negative reaction to it. So I did some googling and it turns out Vit D is a TH2 promotor. This could explain the negative reaction. Vitamin D is often used to treat MS, which is supposedly a TH1 dominant condition.
     
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  15. AbbyDear

    AbbyDear

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    I agree with @Charles555nc - i believe the liver flush is legit (actually having done several of them myself). They are difficult, and it may be that some should avoid due to the high fat, the high magnesium sulfate, the removal of the stones, and any other possible risk/complication. Unfortunately, they did not help my condition, but i do not regret the effort - a lot a crap (stones) "did" come out (and there is no study that could tell me otherwise).

    I also agree that there is "probably" no real substitute for mechanical dislodgement of the stones. Some of the stones were very hard (and not green btw). Solvents may help, but my guess it may take a long time for little progess (though that may be better then none at all). I also believe that if this is done, than a series of flushes should be done in a row, i believe, no more than a month apart. Tthe closer i did them together, then fewer large "soft green" stones came out - which i believe to be more recently formed (since last flush possibly), further out, stones. So i think that doing them further apart would be more or less spinning wheels with these newly formed stones (soft dark green). The closer i did the flushes, the more different color and hardness, smaller stones came out, and less (if any) of the larger soft dark green ones did. However, you do need to allow time to recuperate and stabilize (e.g. the magnesium and/or sulfate load) between flushes.

    Once again, i am not advocating these, just providing experience and opinion.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
    Charles555nc likes this.
  16. Charles555nc

    Charles555nc Senior Member

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    When I say the age of trust is over, I mean it. Drug companies dont even try to cure any diseases anymore, but treat them FOREVER. Even getting arrested is big money for private prisons, and ofc hospital stays are big money...
    Doing flushes helped me lose weight, feel really relaxed, and think more clearly before I got ill. But heres what worked for me after I got ill: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...iate-improvement-with-arvs.30010/#post-461846
     
    AbbyDear likes this.

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