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C. pneumonia, clarithromycin, and probiotics

Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by SOC, Mar 22, 2012.

  1. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    I was just diagnosed with C. pneumoniae and prescribed clarithromycin ER for a relatively long duration. I have not taken antibacterials long-term before, so I'm asking this vast pool of knowledge we have here at PR for some advice/guidance. :D

    Is there anything in particular I should be aware of with long-term antibacterials? I remember hearing that there are problems with destroying gut bacteria. If I took probiotics, wouldn't they just get killed off by the antibacterial? Or is that a matter of the type of antibacterial?

    Has anyone hear taken clarithromycin ER? I've read about doxycycline and azithromycin for use in cpn, but I haven't heard much about clarithromycin.
  2. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    Yes, infection with Clostridium difficile, a very nasty bug!

    Supplementing with Saccharomyces boulardii is one of the ways to protect yourself against Clostridium difficile infection.
  3. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    There is a lot on information specific to CPn on this site, including support protocols. You'll find answers to many of your questions.
    http://www.cpnhelp.org/

    With regard to probiotics, in my experience they're essential while you take abx. I usually start with probiotics a few weeks before the abx and then I go on for several weeks afterwards. The strength of the probiotics is key. You need to get probiotics that are kept refrigerated all the time and with hundreds of billions of bacteria in them. But they're expensive. To save money you can culture your own yoghurt from the best ones available. Look also into Maf314. It's better than any probiotic I've ever tried and it also stimulates the immune system.
    All the best
  4. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Yes, yes, yes to Saccharomyces boulardii! And VSL #3.
  5. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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  6. nventor

    nventor

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    I took Clarithromycin (Biaxin) for about six months, prescribed for chronic Lyme. I can tell you that it was 100%
    the cause of the worst insomnia imaginable, not an uncommon complaint. Check out this link for consumer reviews of this drug
    and others. http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=50662&name=BIAXIN
    roger
  7. Athene

    Athene Never give up

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    Sadly you won't get rid of C on with just clarithromycin, you need three antibiotics .

    There are three established (i.e. proven to work) protocols for C pn, they are all on the website that xrunner linked to. You need to use one of those.

    You'll need to stick at the antibiotics for at least 6 months to eliminate this infection. It is well worth sticking at it. Recent research found that 90 percent of people who had heart attacks have this infection in them, and it is believed to greatly increase risk of heart disease if you live with it chronically. It's well worth getting rid of.

    As already said, you absolutely must take probiotics all the time. take them 2 hours away from your doses of antibiotics and eat them with raw veg, fresh fruit and other prebiotic foods that will help them establish live colonies.

    DO NOT PUT YOUR FAITH IN ONE BRAND OF PROBIOTICS

    No matter how expensive or top quality they are, you can always get batches with no live bacteria in them, you will never be able to tell (until you have clostridium difficile and it is too late). You must buy different types of bacteria and different brands and keep mixing them. You should also include live yeast as Ema mentioned.

    I always used to take VSL 3, which is great when live, but I then found out many packs of it are all dead. It is too sensitive to temperature changes and a tiny hitch in the supply chain makes the whole lot kick the bucket inside its sachet. It has been banned in Germany for this reason.

    You need at least 25 billion bacteria a day to start with, at any sign of the mildest diarrhoea this means you need to increase your dose till the diarrhoea clears up and stay on that higher dose.

    I've been taking 4 antibiotics for the last 18 months, if you follow this, your guts will be fine (mine have actually improved on this protocol). I still haven't got rid of C pn yet. it is a very persistent infection.

    If you get candida, the best thing to eliminate it (and I have tried all of them) is an enzyme called Candex. This was recommended by Richvank. It has no side effects and works like magic!

    Last thing, take n acetyl cysteine at least 600mg twice a day. That kills the cystic forms of the bacteria, and it also breaks down their biofilms. They form biofilms in your heart and lungs, they are horrible little things.
    Enid likes this.
  8. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    SOC: did Klimas testing turn up this infection? If so, what kinds of tests did she use. I think KDM routinely screens for this one so he must think many of us carry it.
  9. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    Thanks for the helpful info everyone!

    I took a look at cpnhelp.org, which made me wonder about the efficacy of clarithromycin for cpn. There certainly is a lot of useful information there. Thanks, xrunner!

    I am about to order some Saccharomyces boulardii. Heaps, do you feel the MOS makes a difference? I see Jarrow sells Saccharomyces boulardii with and without it.

    Nventor, thanks for the warning. I'll keep an eye out for insomnia -- I certainly don't need that.

    You sound like an old pro with this thing, Athene. :) I will look into more probiotics to try in addition to S. boulardii. NAC should not be hard; I was taking it up until recently. Clearly cpn is tricky to treat and the cure causes its own complicated problems.

    I have been lucky not to have GI issues with ME and I'd like to avoid them if at all possible, so I'll jump on the extra probiotics immediately.

    aquariusgirl: No, Dr Lerner turned it up in a test done before I saw Dr Rey. I'm still waiting on the tests from Dr Rey. I'd had most of the infectious disease test from Dr Lerner, so Dr Rey didn't duplicate them. She ordered tests for B-12, D-3, morning cortisol, a couple of extra infectious diseases (cosackii and something I've forgotten at the moment) and a whole bunch of immune tests. It's the immune tests I'm really interested in.
  10. Athene

    Athene Never give up

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    You may need to be tested multiple times to get a positive, as this is one infection that produces a notoriously high rate of false negatives. I got a negative from KDMs test before getting a spectacularly high positive from a lab in Germany.

    Apart from the blood test, you can have a nasal swab (if you have a lot of nasal allergies or chronic siunsitis) which may give you a useful second shot at it.
  11. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    I've been taking 4 antibiotics for the last 18 months, if you follow this, your guts will be fine (mine have actually improved on this protocol). I still haven't got rid of C pn yet. it is a very persistent infection.

    If you get candida, the best thing to eliminate it (and I have tried all of them) is an enzyme called Candex. This was recommended by Richvank. It has no side effects and works like magic!

    Last thing, take n acetyl cysteine at least 600mg twice a day. That kills the cystic forms of the bacteria, and it also breaks down their biofilms. They form biofilms in your heart and lungs, they are horrible little things.[/QUOTE]

    Is it that it is so persistent, or is it because you have an underfunctioning immune system that can't take over when the drugs have done their job? that's what worries me.
  12. Athene

    Athene Never give up

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    In my case it is particularly hard because I also have Lyme, which definitely gives you immune deficiency. If you don't also have Lyme, they usually say 6 months is enough, sometimes less, but sometimes more. Looking at the C pn forum, I have the impression it is very variable.
    And I also have bartonella, which sometimes gets so out of hand that I have to interrupt the C pn threatment and take a different antibiotic to get that back under control... which gives the C pn a chance to worsen. So I am playing a game of snakes and ladders.
    Hopefully the situation is not so dire for most people.

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