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Butyrate

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Daffodil, Jul 3, 2013.

  1. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    This kind of study is really turning into a pet peeve for me.

    I don't think you can say anything about what "typical" doses of sodium butyrate do to herpes viruses in the human body based on this study.

    It used mice (and there is question about how applicable murine studies are to humans) and MASSIVE doses of sodium butyrate.

    A typical daily dose of sodium butyrate is no more than 3.6g.

    Obviously if a supplement makes you feel bad, you shouldn't take it. But I would hate for it to get out there that "butyrate causes herpes reactivation in people at normal doses" when we have no idea if that is true or not at this point.

    Ema
     
    Sushi and Valentijn like this.
  2. garcia

    garcia Aristocrat Extraordinaire

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    The dosage used in the mouse study showing reactivation of herpes was 1,200 mg/kg of Sodium Butryate.

    A Human Equivalent Dosage is found by using the formula:

    [​IMG]

    The Km for mice is 3, for and Adult human it is 37.
    So a human equivalent dose is: 1200 x (3 / 37) = 97 mg/kg.

    For a 70kg adult that translates as 6790 mg = 6.8g total dose.

    So although the dosage used in the mice study is certainly high, I wouldn't call it MASSIVE (it is only double the 3.6 g you quoted)
     
  3. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    garcia, this is really interesting! Thanks so much for posting it.

    I had no idea that this was a whole field of study with debate on the best methods for calculating dose equivalencies or the difficulties inherent in doing so. It also certainly highlights an important issue with animal studies for human drugs.

    I found this paper extremely interesting (though long) on the topic as well:

    http://www.epa.gov/raf/publications/pdfs/RHOMBERGSPAPER.PDF

    Ema
     
  4. Aileen

    Aileen Senior Member

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    As this thread is 9 months old, I'm wondering if anyone has any updates to report.

    I am considering ordering some butyrate. I'm trying to get good probiotics into me, but it takes time for them to get established and doing their job. And I haven't started prebiotics yet as I don't want to feed the wrong bugs. I have an ammonia problem so I figure that by supplementing with butyrate temporarily it might help me feel better while I work things out.

    The problem is there seem to be a couple different forms of butyric acid and I don't know which would be best. The company I'm ordering some other things from has a product called ButyrAid.

    It contains: Calcium (as Calcium Magnesium Butyrate and Calcium Phosphate) 250mg
    Magnesium (as Calcium Magnesium Butyrate and Magnesium Oxide) 200mg
    Butyric Acid (as Calcium Magnesium Butyrate) 200mg

    The other possibility is from a company I don't know called BodyBio. It has a product called Sodium Buytrate. containing: Sodium 940mg
    Butyric Acid 3.6 g

    Does anyone have any experience with either? Would one be more easily tolerated than the other? I have MCS and don't tolerate many things.
    Thanks
     
  5. outdamnspot

    outdamnspot

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    I was hoping I could replicate some of the benefits of resistant starch using sodium butyrate. I love the RS, but it messes with my blood sugar like crazy (I'm hypoglycemic). Did sodium butyrate drop anyone's blood sugar significantly?
     
  6. 2manyhobbies

    2manyhobbies

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    Sherry Rogers is very high on butyrate for gut healing along with the amino acid l-glutamine. It worked well for me and the l-glutamine seemed to help with detox.
     
  7. Aileen

    Aileen Senior Member

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    @2manyhobbies
    Glad you found something that helped you. May I ask what symptoms in particular improved?

    Also, what was the name of the product you used and the brand? We've learned on this forum that different products can act very differently, even if they are supposed to be the same thing.
     
  8. 2manyhobbies

    2manyhobbies

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    Hi Aileen
    I used T.E. Neesby's Butyrex (per by S. Rogers) As best I can recall the dosage is 6 per day/ 2 with each meal. It is calcium magnesium butyrate--smells awful but is effective.

    I found overall my digestion improved and I had less gas and indigestion after a week or so. It goes without saying that you must first take care of any gut dysbiosis before trying to heal.

    I also used Now brand L-glutamine at 5 grams per day. You can go higher but I prefer to go at it slower and less chance of upsetting another balance.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2014

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