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Buteyko

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by golden, Aug 2, 2013.

  1. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    http://www.buteyko.co.uk/buteyko-theory.htm

    So, my Control Pause is between 10 and 15 seconds. So long as i was lying flat and relaxed into it i couod manage this but was a bit oxygen hungry.

    My friend could do 29 seconds!

    Because I was well impressed by this he decided to show me how long he could hold his breath :)

    It was a mega 2 and a half minutes !

    Basic theory is increase co2 levels to increase o2?

    But I cant find the actual breathing technique - does anyone have it handy please?

    I am particularly keen on trying it to cure Sinisitus

    :)
     
  2. golden

    golden Senior Member

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  3. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

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    Here is a series of short video's on you tube. You'll see the progression of video's in the right hand column. He is a bit hard to understand with his Russian accent speaking in English but you just have to deal with it LOL. If someone didn't want to watch every one of these video's, starting with the one in the right hand column titled.."03-B-Bohr Effect: Healthy vs. Sick People and Oxygen Transport" would be a good one to view first. When he speaks of hyperventilating he is not talking in a sense where most people would think of classic hyperventilation <panicking to take a breath where you need to breathe in a paper bag to find relief>. It means you are just over breathing.

    The video titled "01 Buteyko Body Oxygen Test....." he doesn't really show a great example of how to do the test. The one I saw, and I believe it was him showing it in some other video, you take a few normal breaths in thru your nose only, keeping your mouth closed and exhaling out your nose, then on your last exhale you pinch your nose and hold your breath while you bob your head up and down. Hold your breath as long as you can until you need to take a breath. When you need to take a breath only breathe in slowly thru your nose. The CP <control pause> is the amount of seconds you can hold your breath. Supposedly healthy people are atleast in the 40's. After you do this you may notice your nasal passages opening up more and maybe a bit more clarity with more oxygen hitting your brain.

    The whole concept is to try to breathe in only thru your nose and to try to slow down your breathing.



    Rand
     
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  4. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    At the risk of sounding like Bill Clinton, will you tell me what 'need' means. When I am about to pass out, when I have strong urge to breath, when I have a mild urge to breath?
     
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  5. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    It does not matter! As long as you practice, you will progress! Sooner or later, you will get to those 2 and a half minutes!
    :):):)
    Asklipia
     
  6. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    The website looked like you had to sign up for one of his courses to learn what it is that you are supposed to practice. Do any of the videos show it for free? I don't usually watch videos (unless they are under a minute and have cute animals) on my dial-up connection.
     
  7. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    I don't know about the website. I know about the Buteyko method because I know of the science behind it. I had a friend who practiced it and she cured her asthma years ago so I researched it more in detail at the time. Since it is in fact just one of the many yogic breathing practices I did not pursue it particularly.
    But I can assure you that any practice is better taken regularly and with a gentle approach. :)
     
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  8. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

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    hi Little Bluestem

    I hear what you're saying about websites wanting you to sell you a DVD or sign up for local class courses or whatever. Some time ago I perused thru some other video's on youtube about it to see if anyone was showing any other exercises to do. Seems like they are all the same. They talk about the science behind it, show you how to take that body oxygen test, and that's about it. I remember watching this 1 hour and 20 minute video of this speaker talking at a seminar about it, and it was the same thing, if you want to learn more you have to pay..blah blah blah.

    To be honest with you, I don't know how many different types of exercises one can do with it anyway, and like Asklipia said, it may not matter anyway. As long as one tries to focus on breathing only thru their nose and to try to slow down your breathing. It's very hard to do because the natural reaction is you don't feel like you're getting enough oxygen in you so you want to breathe more or take deeper breaths.

    If one has the gonads to try it, you can also tape your mouth closed during the night while sleeping. Just search for Buteyko and "mouth taping". Also the best sleeping position is on your left side, the worst position is sleeping on your back.

    Rand
     
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  9. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    I made a beginners mistake when measuring my Control Pause (CP)

    I did the typical goal orientated , lets see how long i can go for. I was chuffed because it was 10-15 secs .

    However , this is all wrong :(

    Breathe naturally.

    Breathe in, breathe out (always through nose)
    Breathe in, breathe out (hold nose closed ...

    Measure time

    On the first body sign of it asking to take another breath ...release nose

    Now - the first breath in - should be of equal length to bfore the test ...not a massive gulp of air

    This you tube 'teacher ' shows it very clearly in a graph:



    :)
     
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  10. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    My real Control pause is between 4-7 seconds :( Alas , happiness is fleeting lol

    Its a really good indicator off oxygen levels in body apparently .

    Hyperventilation, in this method does not refer to the usual rapid panic , breathing.

    Buteyko refers to a Chronic Hyperventilation wworldwide breathing too many times each minute.

    The bobbing head exercise might be contra indicated for M.E. so anyone please check that out.

    I always need to keep my head still and cant bear bobbing it about.

    I wanted to clear my sinuses more though so gave it a whirl.

    I got immediate hot /cold chills and shivers down my left side . I couldn't do it enough to fully clear sinuses .

    I went onto another you tube teacher. she did a long round of breathe in, breathe out, breathe in , breathe out , hold breath for 5 seconds and repeat the cycle.



    It did help me. I felt really mellow and relaxed.

    Apparently it switches on the parasympathetic nervous system?

    I would like to make sure this system is definitely increasing oxygen in my system and how as it goes against the ideas off taking in more deep breaths ....

    :)
     
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  11. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Do you happen to know what its called under the yogic system?

    Thanks :)
     
  12. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

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    "The breathlessness associated with exercise causes a loss of co2 which increases lactate and leads to glucose being processed inefficiently."

    "Bag breathing for a couple minutes can help increase Co2 and lower stress when resting."

    "Bag breathing during rest down time, only needs to be done for a couple minutes"

    http://co2factor.blogspot.com/

    Interesting, after my next workout I'm going to do some bag breathing for a couple minutes. See if I recuperate faster and lessen any duration of PEM.

    Rand
     
  13. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    There are many yogic systems, most of those describe some types of pranayama, the conscious control of the breath and there are lots of different names.

    However this is not generally taught because pranayama is very powerful and its effects are considerable. Practices of pranayama immediately change the quality of the blood. This is not a really good idea if, let's say, you teach it in a class and people do not practice at home and only come back the next week if at all. Good changes are subtle and progressive. Wild ups and downs are harmful.

    From what I have understood, the Buteyko method teaches you to prolong expiration. This increases the concentration of C02 in the blood. You benefit from the Bohr effect : on the one hand the red cells become smaller, and on the other hand all blood vessels, especially the finer ones at the periphery (think the skin, but also the inner organs) widen. There may be less oxygen in the blood BUT it is carried farther.
    You surely know that people who commit suicide with C02 in their garage are found dead but all pink in the face. Because of this Bohr effect.
    When you practice a pranayama like the Buteyko you learn to enjoy that extra oxygenation without fear. Fear consumes an awful lot of oxygen so when stressed/afraid you end up breathing too fast and drowning out of water.

    One easy to do pranayama that will teach you in time to enjoy more oxygenation by longer expiration is given after this.
    Please do not attempt pranayama if you do not commit to at least 11 days. After that, stop slowly by reducing progressively the timings you practice.
    The mantra is important because it is a way to measure time, but also because its vibrations stimulate the production of hormones that are most probably missing (otherwise you wouldn't be sick in the first place).
    Take a deep breath and repeat the mantra on the exhale. In the beginning only attempt as many repetitions as are comfortable on the exhale (for example start with 2, then 3, then 4 etc next time as you progress. But keep this regular during your session. The body has to be relaxed for this, you do not want to frighten yourself into thinking you will drown! You become really sure that you can do it and of course you can do it. You can sit on a chair no problem. You don't need music to do this.
    Keep doing it 11 minutes.

    When you feel extra saliva in the mouth, it means more hormones are being produced. This happens after a while
    If you find the tongue gets tired and numb, this is more toxins being expelled from around the head.
    If you find you mix up the words of the mantra, it means you have reached e point when your blood glucose is dipping. Go on nevertheless, after a few weeks of practice you will be surprised to have achieved more control on that blood glucose utilization.


    After this lie down for 7 minutes, to give a chance to the new hormones to spread (easier done horizontally because of gravity)

    Someone who has a good grasp:

    The mantra used is :
    GURU GURU WAHE GURU
    GURU RAM DAS GURU.
    As you notice there are a lot of "R"s which are rolled to give a nice kick to the palate.

    I can't believe that I have turned this Buteyko thread into another yoga lesson!!!! golden if you wish I shall delete this.
    Be well!
    Asklipia
     
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  14. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Asklipia,

    Oh no, please don't delete I am very grateful for the information! :)

    I will have to read through several times etc. I think it was Guru Ram Dev , , my doctors guru . He has his own yoga island in scotland , 80,000,000 followers and his own t.v. channel ! :) I wanter to get sky satellite so i could access it and do the breathing morning and night with them. (but can only keep it on my list of gadgets wanted until i get money!)

    I was and still am very keen on breathing/mantras etc - but had to stop. I think my docs mistake was thinking that if i forced breathing i would have a break through. (i thought this too)

    But also, part of my enthusiasm for the Perrin Technique (manual lymph drainage) is that too is a yogic technique . I think that is fujdamental so that when flooding the body with oxygen, the body must be helped to detox the toxins.
     
  15. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    You should take a look at the red LED thread if you haven't yet : http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/led-red-intranasal-light-therapy.24195/
    Somewhere I have offered to share a yoga exercise that allows you to do a kind of Perrin Technique on your own.
    LED red intranasal light therapy
    Be well!
    Asklipia
     
  16. KRR

    KRR

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    Just wanted to add to this thread on Buteyko. I've studied the literature quite a bit, and found Patrick McKeown's work to be most accessible and useful. His book Anxiety Free (available on Amazon for Kindle) is short and simple, making the practice much easier for those of us who are starting out with a very short CP. (I also did his online course and recommend it).

    Basically, you can do a technique he calls Many Small Breath Holds, throughout the day. That means holding the breath for just a few seconds (roughly half of your CP) after an exhale, every few breaths or every 15 seconds or so. Or you can practice short sessions of reduced breathing. Or both.

    I have just started using a salt inhaler, but since Buteyko advises never breathing through the mouth, I decided to keep using the inhaler but doing a session of reduced breathing right afterward. Hopefully that will neutralize the negative effects of the mouth breathing. Any other thoughts on that, I'd love to hear.
     
  17. manna

    manna Senior Member

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    i do nose breathing except for when i use a salt inhaler. mouth breathing is to be avoided imo. i made my own salt inhaler and so made the hole small so i have to suck the air through. if you can reduce the hole size that will help...there should be a little resistance preferably, in that its not too easy to draw a breath through one. i think they should be designed with smaller mouth holes. so when using the inhaler, breath in slowly and abdominally---stomach rises first and chest last.

    as you breath out, through nose, you can make a humming sound which relaxes throat and helps lungs cleanse. outbreath should be slightly longer than in breath. this way you should avoid hidden hyperventialtion from the mouth breathing. long and slow breath in with abdomen rising first, longer breath, whilst humming if you like, out. what the salt inhaler should do, will outweigh the little mouth breathing, especially if done using abdominal breathing.
     

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