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Burning mouth and methylation @Fredd : HELP PLEASE

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by daniariete2000, May 24, 2014.

  1. daniariete2000

    daniariete2000 Senior Member

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    Hi Fredd,

    I started methylation protocol the 1th of may of this year. For 2 months I took every day 1 mg of methylcobalamin, 400 mg of folate , 1 B complex plus various cofactors, potassium etc...

    1 month ago i started a severe burning mouth syndrome (BMS) after eated a picant food and now after 1 month situation is even worse. In the past already I had this BMS but it went away after few time..

    After BMS started I added 2 mg of Adenosylcobalamin every other day but situation after 1 month is even worse. I know that also you had this problem so i ask suggestion :

    1)Do you think I have to stop methylation becouse maybe it increased infiammation too much ?
    2)Or do you think I need increade B12 ?
    3)Or maybe I have to continue with the same dosage ?

    I don't know if methylation is caused this persinting BMS becouse there is also a trigger of piccant food

    Thanks for help

    Daniele
     
  2. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    @Freddd (see the above message), tagged incorrectly
     
    minkeygirl likes this.
  3. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    It is likely that your BMS is caused by biofilm forming alpha haemolytic bacteria overgrowth .... Hydrogen peroxide.

    Cheers.
     
  4. juniemarie

    juniemarie Senior Member

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    hydrogen peroxide sure doesn't work for me. I have BMS bad
     
  5. pela

    pela Senior Member

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    The simplest explanation is too little folate. 400 mcg is a tiny dose. Why not try increasing folate and see if it helps. I assume your B complex is low dose and contains no folic acid?
     
  6. juniemarie

    juniemarie Senior Member

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    No folic acid in my b complex methylfolate did not help either BMS is a mysterious and uncomfortable condition
    I have not read any accounts where someone was successfully able to totally get rid of it.
     
  7. daniariete2000

    daniariete2000 Senior Member

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    I use b complex of pure encapsulation that conteins 400 mg of methylfolate.
     
  8. pela

    pela Senior Member

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    is the pure enc. combo the only methylfolate you are taking? When you say methylfolate hasn't helped, what do you mean? Have you tried taking a larger dose, say 1600-2000 mcg?
    A while back Freddd mentioned that he found taking a b combo with 100 mg of thiamine and niacin greatly increased his need for folate and potassium, and he does better on about 1/3 the amount in the high dose b combos.
    So if you haven't tried the larger dose of folate, that's what I would try, along with reducing or skipping the B combo.
     
  9. daniariete2000

    daniariete2000 Senior Member

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    I started methylation protocol the 1th of may of this year. For 2 months I took every day 1 mg of methylcobalamin, 400 mg of folate , 1 B complex plus various cofactors, potassium etc.. so in total 800 mg of folate.

    Now are 2 days that I stopped everythings becouse I really worry and I don't know what to do...

    For sure a spicy food triggered my BMS but I don't know if methylation protocol was working good or bad for this problem since is 1 month and is getting worse
     
  10. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    BMS is usually a symptom of vitamin b deficiencies rather then methylation issues, especially b12. One possibility though is you are having a bad reaction to perodoxine"B6", this can be toxic in higher doses; usually at 200mg a day but some people get toxicity symptoms at lower doses and this could include burning mouth syndrome. I would personally recommend stopping any form of B6, and if you were to use it only the PLP or P5P form at no more then 10mg a day, these forms are said to be much less risky for toxicity plus 10mg is a much lower dose.

    I know most b complexes come with a pretty hefty dose of b6 so this might be an issue for you. Stop it immediately because you don't want to irritate the issue anymore. Even at the smaller and more bio available forms though it may be necessary to cut even that form of b6 out of your supplements for a bit of time and focus on getting it from food sources. I am being very cautious with this because I don't want you to get longer lasting problems which can happen if people continue to use b6 while having toxic levels of the synthetic version.

    It may help to take the other b vitamins especially with higher doses of methyl folate to prevent other deficiencies, however it is very rare to find a b complex without peridoxine so it would be much better to buy the b1, b2, b3, b6 as "p5p/plp", coline, panteothic acid, and biotin as separate stand alone supplements and cut the pills to get smaller doses per serving.

    I am not stating that b6 is indeed the source of your problem either but definitely the best place to start, according to everything else supplement wise I don't see anything that could be causing it, there is the possibility it is a healing reaction from nerves turning back on from the b12 but this would be more likely if you were severely deficient for a long time in the first place.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2014
  11. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    I meant that it is probably hydrogen peroxide from your bacteria that causes the burn ...., try finding a naturopath who will provide u with some catalyst positive bacteria .....

    Antibiotics or a saliva transplant ....

    It isn't too hard to test for this .... Just needs to be done right .... Hydrogen peroxide goes frothy in the presence of catalase, and it is quite a severe reaction, if you put a tiny drop of hydrogen peroxide on the inflamed area, the reaction will be very mild, or if you are like me, none at all. The tongue is a good place to start .... Just use very, very tiny drops..... Then you have found the cause of your dilemma .... Good luck convincing your doctor though ....
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2014
  12. juniemarie

    juniemarie Senior Member

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    @Elph68 Well I feel like a real dumbo…….I thought you were talking about killing whatever was in my mouth with a peroxide gargle which I do all the time. I have since read your Undetectable Infection thread and theres not much of your advice I can follow for a variety of reasons I have started using at least 10 grams or more of Xylitol every day and I also have been gargling with a Xylitol solution 3 times a day. Got my fingers crossed but I would say in the week since I started its at least 75% better.
    Right before this thread started I was so desperate I was putting on my tongue and inside my bottom lip …OK this is going to gross out some folks, but BMS drives people to the breaking point…….Vicks VapoRub. I notice that the main ingredients are Camphor, Eucalyptus, & Menthol and by gosh it stopped it dead.
    In Stephen Buhner's book Herbal Antibiotics For Treating Drug Resistant Bacteria for Strep. sanguinis as well as other forms of Strep he recommends Juniper & Berberine. May give those a try as well.
    Thanks for your help and will post again how my Xylitol treatment is working.
     
    Sushi likes this.
  13. ChetRoi

    ChetRoi

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    My burning mouth syndrome symptoms diminished after taking Alpha Lipoic Acid, 600mg bid, shown in studies to modulate cellular signaling and, in clinical trials, to be effective in the treatment of BMS.
     
  14. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    What I understand you to be saying is that there SHOULD be catalase-positive bacteria on the tongue, so the hydrogen peroxide should fizz. If it doesn't, that means that you don't have the right bacteria, so any hydrogen peroxide created by the wrong bacteria stays around and makes your tongue burn. Right?
     
  15. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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    There are 2 answers I have found to this ....
    1. Catalayse deficiency (either bacterial or genetic)
    2. Immune response

    Or it could be a mix of both ....

    if there is no fizziness then there is a lot of strep/lactobacillis etc in the mouth, which can be good if they are good strep ..... if there is a lot of fizziness and your tongue is coated, then there is probably staph/e-coli or or some other anaerobe which is not good either. The third cause is probably an immune response but the bacteria are hiding in your nose....... This is most likely staph.

    My 70yo father recently went into hospital and received multiple antibiotic drips after a dog bite and subsequent serious infection .... he ended up with burning mouth to the point he could not taste anything ..... I mixed him up a bottle of xlear nasal spray mixed with 10% betadine (50/50 concentration) and got him to use betadine mouth gargle and some eye drops along with nasal flushing and gargling with sauerkraut juice/kimchi juice/ kefir water and blis oral probiotics .... he said it worked a treat. He continues with the probiotics though ....

    I dab my finger into these and stick it up my nose while snorting strongly so it gets sucked up into the nasal passages .... xlear comes in a nasal spray bottle so it is easy to mix with betadine .... t-trea oil, oregano oil and cinamon oil can also be added but some do have a tendency to burn ...... so it is a matter of trying a little bit first.

    As a note .... Vitamin B1 encourages staph growth .... Vitamin B3 supresses Staph.

    Cheers.
     

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