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Buddhism & CFS

Discussion in 'Spirituality and ME/CFS' started by starryeyes, Dec 7, 2009.

  1. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    Thanks George for the link. I really love seeing your dog every time you post. He's so handsome.
    And the elephant avatar fresh eyes--LOL!
    Like them animal avatars.
     
  2. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    Thanks George for the link. I really love seeing your dog every time you post. He's so handsome.
    And the elephant avatar fresh eyes--LOL!
    Like them animal avatars.
     
  3. George

    George Guest

    Thank you for fixing that

    I don't always have access to a computer anymore and send stuff from my iphone. So thank you for fixing that.

    Do any of you have a teacher that you work with?

    Oh and the "no self" thing is not correct. It is the teaching of "not self" meaning that things are not personal they are causative. For example if you have CFS/ME it's not personal. No virus said "ah ah, I am going to go make that person lose everything. (big evil grin)" Rather a chain of events takes place ending in a result. You have CFS/ME.

    Buddha never said "there is no self" rather that there is nothing that you can take to be permanent in regards to life. When I was 17 I hated asparagus, now I like it. If you had asked me at 17 if I would ever like asparagus I would of said of course not. Not liking asparagus was who "I" was at that time. It was a way of describing "myself" to "myself" and to "others". Since it is subject to change in life then it is not a permanent "self" there for it is "not self", it is open to change.

    If you really think about it that applies to everything that we believe to be "self" at any given time. That doesn't mean that you have no boundaries, or likes or dislikes, you do and you always will. Even if you attained enlightenment you would be aware of things you liked (chocolate) and disliked (rudeness). And you would need to set boundaries in your life. Those things continue to happen over and over. What changes most profoundly is how you experience them and ultimately in how you respond to them.
     
  4. George

    George Guest

    Thank you for fixing that

    I don't always have access to a computer anymore and send stuff from my iphone. So thank you for fixing that.

    Do any of you have a teacher that you work with?

    Oh and the "no self" thing is not correct. It is the teaching of "not self" meaning that things are not personal they are causative. For example if you have CFS/ME it's not personal. No virus said "ah ah, I am going to go make that person lose everything. (big evil grin)" Rather a chain of events takes place ending in a result. You have CFS/ME.

    Buddha never said "there is no self" rather that there is nothing that you can take to be permanent in regards to life. When I was 17 I hated asparagus, now I like it. If you had asked me at 17 if I would ever like asparagus I would of said of course not. Not liking asparagus was who "I" was at that time. It was a way of describing "myself" to "myself" and to "others". Since it is subject to change in life then it is not a permanent "self" there for it is "not self", it is open to change.

    If you really think about it that applies to everything that we believe to be "self" at any given time. That doesn't mean that you have no boundaries, or likes or dislikes, you do and you always will. Even if you attained enlightenment you would be aware of things you liked (chocolate) and disliked (rudeness). And you would need to set boundaries in your life. Those things continue to happen over and over. What changes most profoundly is how you experience them and ultimately in how you respond to them.
     
  5. George

    George Guest

    Love your Heifer!

    Hey how is the book coming?
     
  6. George

    George Guest

    Love your Heifer!

    Hey how is the book coming?
     
  7. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

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    The Book

    The book thread was very lively for a few days and has gone quiet for now--you could add something to it! It's in Community Lounge.
     
  8. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

    Messages:
    1,220
    Likes:
    113
    The Book

    The book thread was very lively for a few days and has gone quiet for now--you could add something to it! It's in Community Lounge.
     
  9. Koan

    Koan Be the change.

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    Here is where everyone gets a little taste of what the Buddhist boards are like. :D

    I beg to differ, George, once enlightenment is attained there is no attachment or aversion. And, if you achieved enlightenment and chose to stay in the samsaric realm, as a Boddhisatva, you would not "need" at all.

    (At this point, someone who reads Sanskrit and has an intimate knowledge of the Pali text usually jumps in. It's a dog eat dogma world.)

    "correct" would be another bone :p of contention.

    my dog says wag to your dog,
    k

    ETA I hope we hear much more from you and George!
     
  10. Koan

    Koan Be the change.

    Messages:
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    Likes:
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    Here is where everyone gets a little taste of what the Buddhist boards are like. :D

    I beg to differ, George, once enlightenment is attained there is no attachment or aversion. And, if you achieved enlightenment and chose to stay in the samsaric realm, as a Boddhisatva, you would not "need" at all.

    (At this point, someone who reads Sanskrit and has an intimate knowledge of the Pali text usually jumps in. It's a dog eat dogma world.)

    "correct" would be another bone :p of contention.

    my dog says wag to your dog,
    k

    ETA I hope we hear much more from you and George!
     
  11. George

    George Guest

    Namaste Koan

    I bow to you on the point.

    I simply wished to alleviate the suffering of one who struggled with a wrong view of "no self".

    All tail wags are wonderful.
     
  12. George

    George Guest

    Namaste Koan

    I bow to you on the point.

    I simply wished to alleviate the suffering of one who struggled with a wrong view of "no self".

    All tail wags are wonderful.
     
  13. Koan

    Koan Be the change.

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    Hey George,

    A fine and compassionate act skilfully accomplished.

    with metta to you and your fine dogs,
    k
     
  14. Koan

    Koan Be the change.

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    Hey George,

    A fine and compassionate act skilfully accomplished.

    with metta to you and your fine dogs,
    k
     
  15. Koan

    Koan Be the change.

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    ME/CFS seems to have a strange affinity for Buddhist women (kidding George!) with Ani Pema Chodron being the best known.

    There is another Buddhist Nun of the Pureland Amida Order of engaged Buddhists, who has ME, and keeps a lovely blog:

    http://lotusinthemud.typepad.com/sujatin/
     
  16. Koan

    Koan Be the change.

    Messages:
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    Likes:
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    ME/CFS seems to have a strange affinity for Buddhist women (kidding George!) with Ani Pema Chodron being the best known.

    There is another Buddhist Nun of the Pureland Amida Order of engaged Buddhists, who has ME, and keeps a lovely blog:

    http://lotusinthemud.typepad.com/sujatin/
     
  17. Dr. Yes

    Dr. Yes Shame on You

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    My Buddha could kick your buddha's.....

    Koan,
    I must disagree with you. Speaking as someone who knows Sanskrit and has intimate knowledge of the Pali text..(just kidding! :p )

    I hardly know any Sanskrit, except for what my Dad once tried to teach me, which amounts to lug-bhug nothing. ("lug-bhug" is one of my favorite Gujarati expressions and I have decided to popularize it in the U.S... it roughly means "approximately", but sounds funnier. No accepted spelling, that I know of. Please help me spread it!) The majority of my readings in Buddhism actually have been translations of Pali scriptures, though I've never been intimate with 'em (we're just good friends). I know much more about the Indian "Hinayana" and "Mahayana" schools than the other Asian ones, or contemporary interpretations, all of which I'm eager to know more about...

    I would just like to interject before a real debate breaks out (as entertaining as that would be!) that no two early Mahayana thinkers seemed to agree with one another about some pretty basic questions, and there was intense (and very healthy, I think) debate regarding almost every aspect of Buddhist philosophy throughout the history of Indian Buddhism. Although there seems to have been a great deal of consolidation into orthodoxies now, obviously the debate goes on. Given this history, I always find it amusing when I read modern Buddhists arguing with each other (sometimes with very un-Buddhist rancor!) over the correct interpretation of Buddha's teachings or of scriptures, when there never WAS a consensus view and when the Buddha himself clearly disdained excessive philosophical debate (one of the things he disliked about the state of Hinduism) and told one of his disciples on a late autumn day that the teachings he provided represent "but a few leaves" among all the leaves of Truth scattered all around them.

    And Koan??! - "But, Sidhartha Gautama was a typical young guy (for someone poised on the very precipice of enlightenment which may not really be all that typical of a young guy) and he rebelled and snuck out of the house to go hang out at the mall." What translation are you using?

    "Then he saw someone who was very sick and that freaked him out even more...Then, he saw a dead body and that just about did him in." What the hell kind of mall was THAT?

    "Do you think my Jewish kids will mind when I tell their kids the story of Buddha at bedtime?"
    I know the kids will like it, the way you tell it! ;)

    (Sorry, I haven't learned to detach myself from my emoticons.)
     
  18. Dr. Yes

    Dr. Yes Shame on You

    Messages:
    867
    Likes:
    22
    My Buddha could kick your buddha's.....

    Koan,
    I must disagree with you. Speaking as someone who knows Sanskrit and has intimate knowledge of the Pali text..(just kidding! :p )

    I hardly know any Sanskrit, except for what my Dad once tried to teach me, which amounts to lug-bhug nothing. ("lug-bhug" is one of my favorite Gujarati expressions and I have decided to popularize it in the U.S... it roughly means "approximately", but sounds funnier. No accepted spelling, that I know of. Please help me spread it!) The majority of my readings in Buddhism actually have been translations of Pali scriptures, though I've never been intimate with 'em (we're just good friends). I know much more about the Indian "Hinayana" and "Mahayana" schools than the other Asian ones, or contemporary interpretations, all of which I'm eager to know more about...

    I would just like to interject before a real debate breaks out (as entertaining as that would be!) that no two early Mahayana thinkers seemed to agree with one another about some pretty basic questions, and there was intense (and very healthy, I think) debate regarding almost every aspect of Buddhist philosophy throughout the history of Indian Buddhism. Although there seems to have been a great deal of consolidation into orthodoxies now, obviously the debate goes on. Given this history, I always find it amusing when I read modern Buddhists arguing with each other (sometimes with very un-Buddhist rancor!) over the correct interpretation of Buddha's teachings or of scriptures, when there never WAS a consensus view and when the Buddha himself clearly disdained excessive philosophical debate (one of the things he disliked about the state of Hinduism) and told one of his disciples on a late autumn day that the teachings he provided represent "but a few leaves" among all the leaves of Truth scattered all around them.

    And Koan??! - "But, Sidhartha Gautama was a typical young guy (for someone poised on the very precipice of enlightenment which may not really be all that typical of a young guy) and he rebelled and snuck out of the house to go hang out at the mall." What translation are you using?

    "Then he saw someone who was very sick and that freaked him out even more...Then, he saw a dead body and that just about did him in." What the hell kind of mall was THAT?

    "Do you think my Jewish kids will mind when I tell their kids the story of Buddha at bedtime?"
    I know the kids will like it, the way you tell it! ;)

    (Sorry, I haven't learned to detach myself from my emoticons.)
     
  19. Koan

    Koan Be the change.

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    Oh, I know Gujarat! I have visited Ahmedabad many, many times! Lug-bhug ;) five or six. Is your father from Gujarat?

    I worked with SEWA (Self Employed Women's Association) there. The most amazing Gandhian, trade union model, grass roots organization of women anywhere, any time! (Ok, I'm not exactly impartial about any of this!!!) And, Gandhi's Ashram is there! The one from where he started the salt march. Gujarat is such an interesting state in so many ways.

    I agree with all you say, Dr. Yes! I do not actually debate Buddhism but it is done with great enthusiasm in Sanghas and virtual Sanghas around the world from Lord Buddha's day to this. It is an exercise of the ego, for sure, and not a game I play except as a demonstration sport: this is what a Buddhist forum is like, lug-bhug.

    So, yes, yes, yes to all you say!!! :p

    Did you say, earlier, that your father was Jain? I have such enormous respect for Jains. Have you visited the big Bird hospital in Delhi. It moves me. Delhi moves me. India knocks me right over!

    Thank you for all your beautiful views with which I concur most heartily!

    Now I'm trying to remember some Gujarati! :confused: So far, lug-bhug zilch :p

    namaste

    ETA You know, I was so taken with the spirit and meaning of everything you wrote that I totally forgot to say that my excitement at the mention of Gujarat was punctured by regular bouts of laughing out loud! You are wonderfully funny!
     
  20. Koan

    Koan Be the change.

    Messages:
    2,598
    Likes:
    55
    Oh, I know Gujarat! I have visited Ahmedabad many, many times! Lug-bhug ;) five or six. Is your father from Gujarat?

    I worked with SEWA (Self Employed Women's Association) there. The most amazing Gandhian, trade union model, grass roots organization of women anywhere, any time! (Ok, I'm not exactly impartial about any of this!!!) And, Gandhi's Ashram is there! The one from where he started the salt march. Gujarat is such an interesting state in so many ways.

    I agree with all you say, Dr. Yes! I do not actually debate Buddhism but it is done with great enthusiasm in Sanghas and virtual Sanghas around the world from Lord Buddha's day to this. It is an exercise of the ego, for sure, and not a game I play except as a demonstration sport: this is what a Buddhist forum is like, lug-bhug.

    So, yes, yes, yes to all you say!!! :p

    Did you say, earlier, that your father was Jain? I have such enormous respect for Jains. Have you visited the big Bird hospital in Delhi. It moves me. Delhi moves me. India knocks me right over!

    Thank you for all your beautiful views with which I concur most heartily!

    Now I'm trying to remember some Gujarati! :confused: So far, lug-bhug zilch :p

    namaste

    ETA You know, I was so taken with the spirit and meaning of everything you wrote that I totally forgot to say that my excitement at the mention of Gujarat was punctured by regular bouts of laughing out loud! You are wonderfully funny!
     

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