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Bronchitis

Discussion in 'Immunological' started by Googsta, Apr 13, 2012.

  1. Googsta

    Googsta Doing Well

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    Does anyone else get Bronchitis 1 to 2 times a year often requiring two lots of anti-biotics?

    I sound like a seal barking :p, it is a really deep hacking cough. Apart from the extra aching, temps/sweats, stabbing head pain , the coughing racks pain through my whole body. This time I am finding it hard to hold water, I get the urge & have to go fast.
    Docs always say it's Bronchitis & it never goes away without anti-b's.

    Even as a child I would get Croup. I grew up my whole life as a passive smoker, my Mum smoked throughout her preganancy too, not sure if that has anything to do with my current health.
    Throughout my late teens Bronchitis (usually from a flu,cold or just a weather change) & early 20's Whooping Cough. I started having mild asthma around that time but usually only during hayfever season or illness. Last winter I had pneumonia.

    I use a vapouriser with Eucalyptus (I would kill for some oxygen right now), Senega & Ammonia which really just helps me sleep. Magnesium is reported to be good for helping with asthma & chronic coughing but it doesn't seem to be helping me :(

    Is this a weak immune system issue?

    Is there anything I can do to prevent this happening so often or at least avoid it's severity?
  2. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    probably a weak immune system. My doc is a fan of long courses of doxycycline for chronic sinus and chest infections, it seems to be effective against alot of bacterial infections in cfs, staph, mycoplasma chlamydia pnuemonia. If prone to it through the winter it might be a good preventative to take throughout the season, just need to remember good probiotics while on antibiotics.

    cheers!!!
  3. Googsta

    Googsta Doing Well

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    Thanks HR. I doubt my doctor would agree to that, he won't even let me do B12 injections more than 1 every 3 months.

    What confuses me is that I have other symptoms that suggest an over stimulated immune system (just mentioned this is Snow's thread). Eczema, Psoriasis.
    I'm just about ready to call the glue factory today :p
  4. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Time for a new doctor?? doxycycline could probably help eczema/psoriasis maybe by its infection fighting ability but also through its anti-inflammatory effects. it helps my eczema.
    Where in australia are you, others maybe able to help point you in the direction of a cfs/me type doc??

    cheers!!!
  5. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Do you know you can by b12 ampoules without a script here in Oz?
  6. Googsta

    Googsta Doing Well

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    Yes, I found Neo B12 at chemist warehouse, thanks.

    I'm in northern Victoria. The ME/CFS society put me onto a GP who herself had CFS, she seemed nice but I can't afford to pay $35 for 15 minute consults (she also charges $10 to write a prescription). I would like to see her but my husband is already tearing his hair out with bills for my health & related products.

    That is interseting what you say about it affecting eczema, if I need anti-b's I'll get that one. If it helps short term it will be pretty obvious & I'll look into a longer course.
    Thanks for that info ;)
  7. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    $10 a script? Thats not right or is this charged when not in a consult. Money can be an issue especially if u want to try something abit out of the normal treatment a gp can offer eg dhea, antivirals etc so expensive here for these things.

    cheers!!!
  8. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    Chronic infections that won't go away can be a sign that you have an issue with biofilm bacteria and/or possibly other forms which are not killed by normal antibiotics.
    Certain bacteria like chlamydia pneumonia and borrelia will adopt a number of strategies to survive attacks from both antibiotics and the immune system.
    They can change form (eg without a cell wall, and others) they can encyst, establish biofilm colonies, colonise tissues that are not perfused well by blood or where the immune system presence is weaker such as joints, synovial fluid etc.

    Bombarding with antibiotics doesn't help solve the problem. Most antibiotics are effective against forms of bacteria that grow fast, resistant forms are slow grower or don't grow at all, as they adopt such forms as a means of surviving, and as soon as the attack is over they will convert back and the typical symptoms of infection will reappear.

    Unfortunately there aren't studies showing a sure and effective way of tackling these chronic infections. The only one I came across is a small study on cystic fibrosis patients, where biofilm prevents ordinary antibiotics from killing the infection in the lungs, and where they used liposomal antibiotics to a good effect. However, as far as I know, liposomals are only available for research purposes. Another type of treatment that seems effective particularly against biofilm formations is called Phage lytic enzymes again not available to the general public, as far as I know.

    There is an in-vitro study on Borrelia biofilm where they found that Doxycycline killed only the ordinary motile form but at the same time caused an increase in biofilm and round forms. The study also found showed that nitroimidazole antibiotics (e.g. Tinidazole, Metronidazole) are possibly the most effective against biofilm and round forms. I don't know how helpful this is with regard to other infections and whether the same conclusions would apply in-vivo.

    All the best

    PS: If I were you I wouldn't touch magnesium. It will only help microbes build more biofilm and may make the infection even more difficult to eradicate.
  9. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    I had chronic bronchitis for years and years. It cleared up largely while I was doing inhaled glutathione, but I'm not sure if that's a cause-effect situation. I was recently diagnosed with C. pneumoniae, which is consistent with chronic bronchitis. Might be worth being tested because longer-term abx are usually given for that.
  10. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi Googsta - a very familiar story to me. Most of my life with chronic bronchitis/asthma/ recurring lung infections which culminated 4 years ago in second bout of pneumonia and pleurisy - ended up on 14 courses of antibiotics - wrecked my gut. Now have fibrosis on left lung shpowing on CT scan - i have to be very evry careful of colds flu etc. I would like to get tested for Cpn - no idea how to do that here in UK.

    I always keep some antibiotics in the house - the minute i feel an infection coming on i start them and it clears up quickly without becoming chronic - i also now have to use an inhaled steroid twice a day, low dose now although was too high for a few years and that upset my immune system.

    I take magnesium plus 300mcg sub cut methyl b12 aday. I have my antibiotics on hand. I spent two years working with a medical herbalist who really really helped my lungs and overall immune. Now i have a tincture ready in the cupboard for lung problems and take it if i feel it coming on - ususally clears it up beofre even trying the anti B's. I am very very careful about keeping away from germs and also smokers and chemicals of all sorts.

    This approach has worked for me - i havent needed antyibiotics all last winter and havent had a lung infection now for about 18 months - the longest time in the past 20 years.
    Good luck with it all - i really sympathise - its horrible not being able to breathe.
    Take care, Justy.

  11. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    There are some people at MIT researching and using Phage Therapy for this:

    What Are Bacterial Biofilms? A Six Minute Montage

    Dr. Tim Lu - Biofilms and Phage Therapy

    On the other hand, there appears to be an already developed system in the Republic of Georgia to address biofilms with Phage Therapy.
  12. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    Please, note that bacteria use magnesium in the production biofilms, along with other minerals. This is probably the only situation in which supplementing with magnesium and other minerals is contraindicated.
  13. hurtingallthetimet

    hurtingallthetimet Senior Member

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    hope you feel better soon, as someone as had mentioned sounds like you may need a new doctor, someone i knew kept coughing and was told after almost a year and seeing a specialist that it was fungus infection, not sure what the specific name was...agian hope you feel better
  14. silicon

    silicon Senior Member

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    I was wondering if you have ever tried acupuncture. I used to get bronchitis and would treat with antibiotics, and kept getting weaker, and the bronchitis would return after a few months, and my gut kept getting more messed up due to the antibiotics. I did find that acupuncture did a world of good for messed-up lungs, and enabled me to avoid the use of antibiotics. Although it no longer helps with my ME/CFS symptoms, acupuncture is my go-to remedy for any sort of lung problems, as my lungs remain a perennial weak spot.
  15. Googsta

    Googsta Doing Well

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    Just started probiotics HR ;), thanks for reminding me.

    That sounds quite possible in my case XR, I have had lots of antiB's since childhood. One of the main reasons the first course never works is that I've had it so many times but that is the way docs do it these days (stupid IMO).
    Biofilm are fascinating! I will do further reading.

    Regarding magnesium, it has been the best treatment for my M.E, GRRR! What to do! I just bought a multi with magnesium in it! But I always get Bronchitis around late summer/autumn anyway & winter, even without magnesium, maybe I should just keep an eye on it? Hmmmm

    Justy I am so glad you have found something that helps you, you are right, not being able to breath has to be the worst symptom. It's awful. I am really getting sick (haha) tired of traditional medicine & the doctors who dispense it, I am heading into alternative but it is unfamiliar territory & my doctors scoff when I tell them what I am taking.

    SOC, I will ask for some more tests ;)

    Nano, interesting. Do probiotics or other enzymes have any effect that you know of?

    Silicon - love the avatar ;) . Do you think it is just the increased blood flow to the lungs?

    Thanks Hurting :Retro smile: Glad your friend finally found out what was wrong. All my GP's (general practioner's) treat the symptom but not the cause.
  16. Googsta

    Googsta Doing Well

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    I did some research today & according to the sources, bacteria only make up 10% of Bronchitis cases.
    Most cases develop after a virus or exposure to an irritant.

    N-A-C (N-acetyl-l-cysteine) has been shown to help thin mucus in studies.

    I really appreciate the input, I had to sleep practically upright last night so the sleep quality was poor & the aching is real bad today. Anything I can do to stop this happening is worth serious consideration.
  17. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi Googsta, for what its worth i found that if i didnt take the antibiotics within about 12 hours of first feeling symptoms coming on then i would always end up with two courses. It works best for me if i take a course immediately - almost before it actually develops into full blown bronchitis.

    I had months of sitting up to sleep and it really is the worst thing ever, i do hope you find a solution soon.

    Magnesium - as magnesium is so helpful for me (and generally recommended for the lungs) i am not going to stop it unless i know i have a biofilm issue - which i dont.
    All the best, Justy.
    ahimsa likes this.
  18. silicon

    silicon Senior Member

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    Increased blood flow, increased chi flow...whatever it is, it works in my particular case. It is curious that my lungs just need this little nudge to mostly address the problem (although not the underlying weakness). I also have a chemical sensitivity to cigarette smoke, which also gives me bronchitis-type symptoms--and the needles also help clear things out.
  19. Googsta

    Googsta Doing Well

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  20. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi Googsta - have you had proper investigation of your lungs by a specialist? x rays, ct scan etc. It wasnt until i had a CT scan that i saw the fibrosis in my lungs which has probably built up due to all the constant infections in there. This helps me because i now know that they are more likely than not to get infected and for bugs to get 'trapped' vAlso allowing the infection to continue causes more scar tissue to build up, thus storing up more problems in the future. I'm not syaing you have the same problem - but that a proper investigation is worthwhile. Now i know never to struggle on unitl my lungs are awful but to attack straight away with whatever works - herbs/antibiotics/steroids, whatever.

    Are you feeling any better?
    Justy.x

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