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Broken cruciate ligaments in both knees and also cervicals for no reason. Anyone?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by MNC, Mar 27, 2015.

  1. MNC

    MNC Senior Member

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    So, after many months of terrible pain and disability in all my joints, specially in neck and knees, and after countless visits to every rheumatologist and traumatologist, and usless x-rays and lab tests, an Internist helped me by prescribing MRIs in knees and cervicals as I begged him to do it.

    And so, my knees are severly injured with partial broken cruciate ligaments in both knees and th neck is really damaged too. Different injuries, degenerative. I am 49 and it's been going on for... 30 years progressively? I was 19 and got very ill when playing sports (I loved them). Plus all the constant body pains and weird symptoms of all kind that you al lknow well.

    But why didn't they start by asking for an MRI when I first went with this awful pain in July last summer? It is a private insurance, not the social security.

    So, does anyone know why the ligaments can be broken in both knees when I have barely left my sofa and bed in the last 20 years and definetely have not played football?

    I used to play basketball and soccer when young and remember awful knee to knee crashes and falls, so this could be chronic since then, but 30 years is way too long.

    What degenerative diseases destroying the ligaments are there? Anyone knows?

    Regards.
     
  2. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    I spend my days horizontal but I have problems
    With my rotator cuffs, bilateral chondromalacia patella and other joint problems whenever they decide to get pissed.

    A physical therapist I saw a few years ago told me that inactivity can cause all sort of problems because the muscles and tendons aren't being used to keep them in working order (something like that).

    My problems sure aren't because I'm overdoing it.
     
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  3. AndyPandy

    AndyPandy Making the most of it

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    Sorry you are going through this @MNC. I tore my ACL in a skiing accident years ago and it was very painful getting around on it until I had it repaired. Can't imagine how difficult it must be for you on top of everything else.

    Hope someone here can come up with some answers for you.

    Best wishes.
     
    MNC likes this.
  4. MNC

    MNC Senior Member

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    So you guys think it can be caused by inactivity?

    I have spent the last 20 years in this sofa/bed/sofa/bed on the internet and maybe that is why my knees and neck are broken? Could it be just that?? That would be great news.
     
  5. AndyPandy

    AndyPandy Making the most of it

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    I'm not sure about inactivity causing cruciate ligament ruptures. I can say that the knee that I had repaired makes some fabulous crunching noises now which it didn't make before I had ME/CFS. I don't know how it would stand up to rigorous activity, which for me remains a fantasy for now.

    I have been mostly bedbound/housebound for about the past 4 years so not much activity going on here. I do some very simple yoga stretches to try and maintain flexibility which seems to work for me. I notice it if I don't do them.
     
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  6. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    @MNC Have you taken any fluoroquinolone antibiotics in the past year?
     
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  7. MNC

    MNC Senior Member

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    In fact I got very ill last summer in my whole body, joints and so on bcause last summer I stopped smoking and decided to walk a lot every day, so I walked for about 5 km every day and it just killed me, it made me dreadfully sick, as this super flu we get when trying to exercise...

    So... not so easy. Looks more like some illness is destroing our ligamements, muscles, etc. Or at least mine.
     
    Valentijn likes this.
  8. MNC

    MNC Senior Member

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    Maybe. I have constant infections in sinuses and urinary tract and I have taken lots of them in the last many years.

    How can I know if I don't even remember the names of the antibiotics?

    I would need to check a list of fluoroquinolones and find the commercial name in Spain. (I am from Madrid).

    Thanks, I'll check that.
     
  9. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    My guess is they gave you Cipro for the UTI's but I do not know the name of it used in Spain or outside the US.

    If you took any FQ antibiotics but especially multiple courses, this is my guess behind what caused your injuries to the point that I would bet money on it (unless you have an unknown degenerative disease like you said.)

    ETA: main ones to check are Levaquin, Cipro, Avelox and Floxin (US names.)
     
  10. MNC

    MNC Senior Member

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    Thanks Ginger, I definetely took Cipro long ago for a long time as I have 20 years of hellish sinusitis-like inflammation, probably caused by very old root canals and infections chronified in my jawbone.

    I will check the others you said.

    Do they really destroy ligaments for good?
     
  11. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Its a possibility. However even with inactivity breaking things requires an event to break them. Having said that I have lost count of the number of times that I have woken up with pain from sleeping in a stressful position.

    Another point is that damage from long ago, that a young body can cope with, might make these tissues more vulnerable to weakening from both age and inactivity.

    I hope you can find some answers that help you.
     
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  12. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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  13. redviper

    redviper Senior Member

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    Man, I'm sorry brother. Sometimes when walking I definitely feel the ligaments in my knee strain and I've always told everyone that I feel like I could easily tear something. I don't even have to make a misstep, sometimes the ligaments just strain or feel on the verge of giving way. I've also got a lot of cervical problems.

    Like you, I was also very athletic before the viral onset of the disease in my mid 20's. I would do some form of intense workout 5 or 6 times a week, it was therapeutic for me. Immediately since the onset of my illness a few years ago, I lost my ability to work out. Within days it felt like all the ligaments in my body had shortened by a couple of inches, and has remained that way since. That tension is causing me issues with a lot of the ligaments, soft tissue and muscles throughout my body. I personally don't believe it's from inactivity, primarily because I tried lifting weights twice during the initial viral onset of my illness. I thought it was just another flu that I could "sweat out".with a brief workout. I tried doing some of my usual weight lifting exercises and the pain was excruciating throughout my ligaments and muscles. So for me, it was definitely a problem I noticed right from the start. I've also been forced to participate in some absurd physical therapy programs since my illness that highlight that ligaments and muscle problems are still a huge issue for me.
     
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  14. MNC

    MNC Senior Member

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    Funny enough, only 2 weeks ago I went to the gym committed to die if necessary but regain my muscles and fitness.

    I barely did some pull ups and push ups and light stretching and I almost needed an ambulance to get back home.

    Ther is where I realized how ill my neck was. I couldn't literally stand up from the push ups, I had to roll aside and push up with my hands to stand up.

    I could cry as it was the same universitary gym where I always went since I was 18 and was so happy there. All young guys around playing soccer, rugby, basketball, tennis, running, volley... and I was there looking like a vampire with no life anymore. Life can be very cruel.
     
  15. redviper

    redviper Senior Member

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    Yea, I can definitely relate. I also had another experience early during the onset of my illness where I almost passed out and fell down after lightly riding an upright stationary bike for 15 seconds. Considering I was running a few kilometers a couple times a week, that moment just reaffirmed to me how seriously ill I was.

    Last summer I experimented with tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), a version of cannabis pills that doesn't provide a high but does offer some pain relief. The most surprising thing for me was that it immediately improved my capacity for physical activity by at least about 50%. I felt I could exert myself more physically on walks, I could even do some light cardio machines for 10-15 minutes. It improved my recovery time, and increased my threshold before I would crash. Unfortunately I lost any of the benefits over this last winter as my condition regressed in the winter to back where I was house bound again. I am looking forward to the upcoming summer so I can experiment with these THC pills more and hopefully prove a definitive correlation.

    I certainly agree though, life can be very cruel and it's incredibly tough to watch other men participate in athletic competition (or anything really) when I feel like I should still be able to get out there and perform at a similar level. Running, competition, athletics......those activities used to be like drugs to me. It used to be my primary method of stress relief and I miss that adrenaline rush from an intense workout so much. I wish you luck with your recovery brother, take it easy and be gentle to yourself. I know how hard that can be first hand.
     
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  16. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member

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    @MNC I would google Levaquin and Cipro and the FDA black box warnings for tendon rupture and you will find a lot of info. The most common injuries are to the achilles tendons and knees but in my case, Levaquin damaged the triceps tendon in my right arm which is less common. It did not rupture but took about a year and a half to recover and was the first incident in a chain of events that destroyed my health.

    I will never have full strength in my right arm again (and I am right handed) and at the time I had a severe neurotoxic reaction which led to being hospitalized for tests in 2010. I would not take another FQ antibiotic if my life depended on it and would choose death after what I went through with it.
     
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  17. Raindrop

    Raindrop Senior Member

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    So sorry to hear about all of this.
    I have ligament tears in my knee (believe it is an ACL tear) and knee instability.
    I have to walk and sit and move very carefully. If I don't there is joint misplacement
    and it is so painful I "yelp"!! Very frightening. I am told there is nothing to do, but I am
    confused. I have always had Hyper-mobile joints. I read in the ICC Primer that hyper mobile
    joints is associated with ME. Do you happen to have hyper-mobile joints? I have not known
    anyone to have those so it was a surprise to me. I DO feel that all the inactivity is
    DEFINITELY effecting my joints and pretty much everything else. IT's so hard to do
    enough in this regard. I did not have any prior injury that I know of. So I am wondering if
    the disease process OR the inactivity we face could actually cause problems like these
    that are degenerative or related to hyper-mobility in fact.
     
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  18. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    I have them as do many other forum members.
    I have to see a DO every few weeks to get me back in alignment or else I have a lot of pain, but it isn't from damaged ligaments. I don't know if inactivity could damage ligaments but for someone with EDS it is likely to cause a lot of pain. If I don't do certain anaerobic exercises regularly, I will be in pain within a week.
     
  19. MNC

    MNC Senior Member

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    Ginger, thanks a lot. I have been checking the commercial names in Spain and the name of the principle and I only took Cipro for a couple of weeks or one month as much, probably more 2 weeks than one month.

    And I had the pains and disability all over my body prior to that and didn't feel any change for the worse that I recall. Although it was like 15 years ago and I have forgotten this pretty much.

    I guess that if Cipro was so toxic that destroyed us in a short course, everyone would know. Isn't it?

    Many thanks.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2015
  20. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    It only affects a small % of those who take it, but for them it seems to be hell.
     
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