Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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brewers yeast in place of B complex

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Mary, Feb 29, 2016.

  1. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    I recently started taking brewers yeast (http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swan...s-yeast-32-oz-908-grams-pwdr?otherSize=SW1562) in place of my regular B complex, and I think the brewers yeast is a better source of B vitamins. (my muscle testing indicates so and I feel fine on it)

    It's a little complicated how I started doing this. I had been trying to take B1 both as thiamin HCL and benfotiamine (not at the same time), and each time it would boost my energy, but then afterwards I would lose the energy and feel wiped out.

    So it appeared to be depleting something. I don't think it was potassium, I stay on top of that pretty religiously and it felt different than low potassium symptoms.

    And then I read Freddd's post about refeeding syndrome and read elsewhere that hypophosphatemia is the hallmark of refeeding syndrome, so ended up drinking lots of kefir -high in phosphorus - and that helped my energy come back some, but I still was dragging, could not get back to where I started, much less the extra energy the B1 initially gave me.

    So then I theorized the B1 was depleting one of my B vitamins, B2 seemed a likely culprit. However, each time I've tried to take B2 I end up feeling awful so was afraid to touch it.

    And then I thought of brewers yeast and posited that it could likely have the B vitamins in their proper ratios, including B2 of course. The ratios of the Bs in all the different B complex products are totally artificial and I don't think correspond to the ratios found in foods.

    So I went back on the B1 (benfotiamine this time) very carefully, got a mild energy boost, supplemented with phosphorus in yogurt and/or a phosphate supplement, and added in brewers yeast - and voila! I'm tolerating the B1 just fine (started with 35 mg. and am up to 75 mg. now, half of a 150 mg. tablet) I am so glad I can take it now because I think I need it. I got interested in B1 because of its ability to resolve lactic acidosis, which I don't have, but I do have PEM which somehow involves abnormal lactic acid production.

    I plan to increase the benfotiamine gradually and just see what if any effect it has on PEM. So far no effect, but I do feel better overall - actually I have to be more careful now in a sense because I want to do more because I feel better, but I crash just as easily as before - arggghh! :bang-head: :sluggish: Oh well, I'll take what I can get! :confused:

    (FWIW, I still take 1600 mcg. folate, 5000 mcg. methylcobalamin, 500 mg. pantothenic acid every other day)
     
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  2. sb4

    sb4 Senior Member

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    Any updates on this thread?

    I too have been taking b1 and noticing significant improvements yet now I am experiencing some back sliding. Think I'm throwing something else out of wack. Did the brewers yeast work?
     
  3. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    actually I had to stop the brewers yeast because of its glutamic acid content. I'm extremely sensitive to MSG and though brewers yeast doesn't contain MSG, I am sensitive to glutamate and hence glutamic acid. It causes severe insomnia for me. So I've gone back to Jarrow B Right for a B complex and do okay with it. I'm now taking 200 mg of B1 a day (100 mg with breakfast and 100 mg with lunch)

    Did you ever look into possible low phosphorous? That was a major problem for me when I first started taking B1. I now eat sunflower seeds daily (have gotten hooked on them!), they're high in phosphorous, and also drink kefir a couple of times a week, and don't have low phosphorous issues any more.

    Here's a study which shows a link between phosphate diabetes and ME/CFS: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9683977

    I don't know if I have phosphate diabetes, but I have dealt with low phosphate on a couple of occasions. It can cause severe fatigue. I've read you have to be careful with phosphate supplements per se. At one time I took a very small dose of monosodium phosphate, but do well now with the sunflower seeds and kefir.
     
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  4. sb4

    sb4 Senior Member

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    @Mary

    I am not sure about the phosphurus. I have looked at the symptom but I only partially fit. I might be, don't want to waste more money though. My problems that are creaping back are dry mouth, and some heart stuff. Also maybe insomnia.
     
  5. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @sb4 - I've never had to deal with dry mouth so can't help you there, unfortunately. Though I'm sure there are people on this board who might able to help with that.

    Low potassium can cause cardiac symptoms as well as insomnia. Low magnesium can do that too. I have to take a potassium supplement daily (around 1000 mg in divided doses). You can try drinking some low-sodium V8 or vegetable or tomato juice and see if it helps - they're high in potassium. I also take lots of magnesium.
     
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  6. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    One more thing - are you taking any new meds? If so, I'd check them for side effects (don't rely on your doctor to tell you about side effects) --
     
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  7. sb4

    sb4 Senior Member

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    @Mary not taking any new meds. Already supplementing with LoSalt.

    I think I'm guna lay off the thiamine for a couple days then restart it again with other B vits and go down that rabbit hole :(
     
  8. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Are you taking activated B2? Niacin? P5P or B6?
    B1 supplementation needs a well functioning sulfur metabolism (molybdenum, B6)
     
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  9. sb4

    sb4 Senior Member

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    I am not. I guess I should be though. The only one Im doing is moly.

    May I ask where you get this information. I have found the thiamine is neccesary to convert pyruvate into Acetyl CoA for the kerbs cycle but am struggling with how it can lead to deficiencies in B2, Niacin, P5P, and so on.

    Thanks
     
  10. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    You are taking B1 to get energy. The energy drivers in the body are FAD (B2) and NAD (B3).
    Moly needs B6 for proper sulfur metabolism.

    Obviously whenever you up one vitamin, there will consequently be increased need for the others. Dr. Lonsdale recommends taking a B complex together with the high doses of B1.

    ETA - not to mention the minerals

    ETA 2 - B5 is also needed for Acetyl-CoA

    ETA 3 - Biotin and B1 are needed in the BCAAs metabolism (as are B2 and B6)
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
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