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Brain scans detect fibromyalgia

Discussion in 'Fibromyalgia' started by Countrygirl, Mar 23, 2012.

  1. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

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    http://www.mysquirrelbait.com/brain-scans-detect-fibromyalgia/


    Brain scans detect fibromyalgia! Yes!! Finally a physical finding to say that fibromyalgia is a disease thats not psychosomatic.

    The Dr. Oz show that was aired on 3/12/12 showed a picture of a brain scan of someone with fibromyalgia. That scan showed an area down the center of the brain and across the top of the frontal cortex in a bright blue. It was explained that this area of the brain had a very low blood supply. It was also explained that this was the area of the brain that was directly connected to pain processing and emotional responses to pain. No wonder the brain doesnt know when to shut off its pain sensors, its not nourished. The scan that detects these changes in brain function is called a photon emission computed tomography (SPECT) scan. Its nice to know that brain scans detect fibromyalgia.

    On November 3rd a study was release from Marsielle, France. This study included thirty women, twenty had fibromyalgia and ten were normal. A 100 question fibromyalgia test was given to these women. This test also showed differences in brain function between the women with fibromyalgia and those without. This study was conducted by Dr. Guedj and his colleagues. The twenty women with fibromyalgia were diagnosed according to tests that the American College of Rheumatology uses.

    An increased score on this test indicated that low blood flow occurs in the left anterior temporal cluster. This area of the brain sets at about the area of the ear on the left side. This hypoperfusion (low blood flow) showed up the most in the polar and mediobasal cortices.

    According to Dr Guedj the results of this test indicated that fibromyalgia is a disorder of the central part of the brain where pain sensations are heightened.

    The results of these findings might explain why doctors cant find and physical reasons for fibromyalgia.

    Other tests were given to these women besides the 100 questions. They were given tests that rates pain on a scale, a French version of the McGill Pain Questionnaire, the Questionnaire Doleur de Saint-Antoine scale, and the Tubingen Pain Behavior Scale.

    The only results that were compared to the SPECT scans were the results from the Fibromyalgia Impact Questionnaire.

    The relationship between somatosensory hyperperfusion and fibromyalgia clinical severity is reported for, to our knowledge, the first time and reinforces the central sensitization hypothesis, they wrote.

    Low blood flow to the left anterior temporal region, which is part of the limbic system, could lead to an explanation regarding another aspect of fibromyalgia Brain fog.

    There was another study from the University of Michigan Health Services. This study shows that persons with fibromyalgia suffer more pain from a gentle pinch that persons who dont have it. In fact, the pressure from the pinch has to be twice as much for the persons who dont have fibromyalgia to feel as much as those who do. The sense of pain shows up in different areas of the brain than the individuals with fibromyalgia.

    This study also included fMRIs that were performed on sixteen patients with fibromyalgia. fMRI is an extremely fast form of MRI. It is reported that the results of these tests give a road map of where the pain is felt in the brain.

    Simply put, low blood flow to the central and left temporal portions of the brain could very well be a leading cause for the pain and confusion that we fibromyalgia patients suffer with. Thank goodness its not in our heads like some physicians still think it is. Then again, it looks like maybe it really IS in our heads. Its nice to know brain scans detect fibromyalgia
  2. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Very interesting - thanks Countrygirl - as Prof Hooper (and others) pointing out all along to the psychos - not in the mind - but brain (biology). Nice to see research tying up.

    (My own brain MRI - "high spots" whatever that meant - hardly to able to function at the time).
  3. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

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    This study came out in 2008.
    Too bad that Dr Oz took so long to cover this.
    But at least...he did! Lol
  4. Nielk

    Nielk

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    Are there any similar studies showing spect scan abnormalities in ME/CFS patients?
  5. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

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    Dr. Byron says that the only true cases of ME are the ones who appear on the SPECT. I have his brochure here + big encyclopedia (thanks Dr Byron, National ME/FM and IACFS!) so I will have to retrieve his own words and look at the scans. But it would be interesting to compare them and see if what is was saying all along has just been re-discovered! Someone has probably done this already.
  6. Jarod

    Jarod Senior Member

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    planet earth
    Like the name of the blog. Squirrel bait. :tongue:

    Cheers to Dr Oz! Remember when that CFS segment came on Dr OZ? I think many people wrote in to his show to help him understand our situation better? Maybe we had an impact on Dr Oz with those letters?

    Since Dr Oz has been pretty bold on his show. He decided to expose the arsenic levels in apple juice that exceed safe drinking water standards.

    http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/arsenic-apple-juice
    SickOfSickness likes this.
  7. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    Brostoff and Costa did some work on CFS patients in the UK

    Brainstem perfusion is impaired in patients with chronic fatigue syndrome. Costa, DC., Tannock, C and Brostoff; Quarterly Journal of Medicine, 1995, 88, 767-773

    also

    Cerebral perfusion in chronic fatigue syndrome and depression

    SIOBHAN M. MACHALE, MRCPsych, STEPHEN M. LAWRIE, MRCPsych, JONATHAN T. O. CAVANAGH, MRCPsych, MIKE F. GLABUS, PhD, CATHERINE L. MURRAY, BSc and KLAUS P. EBMEIER, MRCPsych

    Abstract

    Background Patients with chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) and depressive illness share many, but not all, features.

    Aims To test the hypothesis that patients with CFS have abnormal cerebral perfusion, that differs from that in patients with depressive illness.

    Method We recruited 30 patients with CFS who were not depressed, 12 depressed patients and 15 healthy volunteers. Regional cerebral perfusion at rest was assessed using region of interest (ROI) and voxel-based statistical parametric mapping (SPM) techniques.

    Results On SPM analysis there was increased perfusion in the right thalamus, pallidum and putamen in patients with CFS and in those with depressive illness. CFS patients also had increased perfusion in the left thalamus. Depressed patients differed from those with CFS in having relatively less perfusion of the left prefrontal cortex. The results were similar on ROI analysis.
    Firestormm likes this.
  8. SpecialK82

    SpecialK82 Senior Member

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    Unfortunately, most doctors won't order a SPECT scan. They say that insurance won't cover it. I do not understand why it is not used.
  9. Desdinova

    Desdinova Senior Member

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    The show in question. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMeqBH8qK-c
    I remember my father going on and on complaining about two of his coworkers who had FM back in the late eighties/ early nineties. His disgust was evident when he talked about them as he saw them as lazy and went by what the doctors including his PCP told him about FM.

    It wasn't easy for me to tell him that the rheumatologist diagnosed me with FM. He was terminal with Melanoma and said "now that you have an answer you can move on with your life. You won't have to dwell on your aches and pains and can get some sleep." He was the same way about Lyme until his friend got it (diagnosed with it in the late eighties) and told him a thing or too.
  10. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

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    Thank you for sharing this. We can all relate to what you are saying.

    I remember I was working and not feeling well (not knowing it was ME) and I remember I was complaining about a colleague who had fallen on the ice while leaving work. He was away for many months. I thought that he was faking it until I found out he had undergone a very dangerous procedure in his spine. It's only when my symptoms got worse and I started getting terrible pain in my lower back that I realized how unfair I had been with him. Never again will I judge someone else's pain. Now, I think of him each time the pain is unbearable.
    Desdinova likes this.
  11. LHCTom

    LHCTom

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    Spect scan for Lyme and CFS/ME

    I'm going for a SPECT scan next week. Then in June I'm going to Columbia Universities Tick-Borne Research Center for their 2nd opinion service for Lyme disease. According to Columbia's research with SPECT: "In Lyme Disease, the most common finding is of heterogeneous hypoperfusion diffusely throughout the brain." and "70% of patients with chronic Lyme disease will have multiple areas of hypoperfusion". I have symptoms and diagnosis of both Lyme and CFS/ME so I'm hoping the SPECT scan results will be helpful when I have the Columbia evaluation since they have done all types of scans on late stage Lyme patients where some of the mechanisms are suspected to to be similar in CFS/ME. This is the group that was involved in CFS/Lyme/controls spinal fluid proteins study and have approached Lyme from a neurology point of view rather than infectious disease one.

    http://columbia-lyme.org/patients/ld_spinal_fluid.html
  12. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

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    Could you let us know how it turns out?
    It could also be a possibility for me, so it would be nice to get an idea of how it went for you.
  13. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    The reason spec scans aren't covered by insurance is that the technology is not advanced enough to be able to look at a scan and come up with a definitive diagnose of FM/CFS. There's too much room for error.

    A study needs to be done where the results of the spec scan are blinded and see if the researches can show which ones are patients with Fibro or ME/CFS and which ones are not. An example would be MS where it is pretty definitive that there are lesions on the brain. Even without getting a spec scan. Can't remember if you get an MRI or a CAT scan for MS. Both?

    Hopefully someday?

    Barb C. :>)
  14. Desdinova

    Desdinova Senior Member

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    That's the common reason given but seeing as how this is 2012 it's starting to become an excuse. People used that line with MRI technology decades ago as well. It seems silly to me that something (Spect Scans) that Dr. Cheney and Dr. Peterson employed (albeit scanned and read by someone else) years ago (80's) is still viewed as uncertain or vague in the ability to be interpreted or utilized three decades later.

    I was under the assumption that Insurance didn't cover them (today at least) because they're not endorsed by any government body as an accepted test for Doctors treating ME/CFS or FM patients. MS patients today typically get MRI scans. Even then they are not fool proof in diagnosing MS and are open to interpretation. Thus the disclaimer that is often given "MRI is not in and of itself a diagnostic of MS."

    http://www.muschealth.com/neurosciences/about/ms/about_ms/diagnosingms.htm
    So their will always be a certain degree of interpretation with most Imaging tests.
  15. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Psychobabblers SHOULD be charged with negligence, even manslaughter (or murder, if there's any evidence of culussion to keep costs down for insurance companies or governments)
    this is yet more proof of their criminal negligence towards patients who are terribly sick and suffering
    To HELL with the scum

    sorry, we need mass outrage and criminal trials for this crap to have a line drawn under it, hard
    to provide justice, make sure scim don't get away with it and ensure the safety and proper care of furture generations AND other illnesses which do not fit easily into the moronically stupid "mental boxes" those bigotted, arrogant assclowns use.
    They are NO different ot the phrenologists and eugenicists of a century ago.
    Should also be mass screeened for psychopathic tendencies (seriously).


    Deaths from ME recently, grrr....there should be no patience for those psychobabbler vermin any more.

    They didn't do follow up SPECT or MRI scans on myself despite such being asked for by the consultant,
    strong suspicion from what has been said few years ago (wish I coudl reclal the item I read, sigh), there is a moratorium on such in the UK for ME patients
    that's a cover up
    which is murder when it leads ot patients' deaths

    Not a happy bunny, at all!
    Rabbitattack.jpg

    the teeth! The teeth! :p
  16. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    My question would be if there are any studies that show a diagnosis without knowing if the scan is from someone with our DD or not. This would be the penultimate test.

    I was a big follower of Dr. Amen for a while but then, IMHO, he started extrapolating, too many diagnosis from spec scan data.

    But it is a good start and hopefully we will see studies that are blinded to use the spec scan for diagnosis.

    Science eventually showed that MRIs are a good diagnostic tool. Maybe this will happen with the spec scans.

    Barb C.:>)

    ETA While this article deals with diagnosis of psychiatric disorders, the same arguments can be made for other uses. It looks like more studies are needed for spect scans of the brain.

    Spec scans of other parts of the body have been found to be useful. I believe it was spec scan that I had for a possible bone disorder.

    From http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/spect-scans-at-the-amen-clinic-a-new-phrenology/

  17. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    This quote only appears to refer to quantifying the status of an illness, or the correlative effects of treatments, not as to whether there is damage present. The problem me/cfs patients have is that specialists refuse to even acknowledge that there is damage showing up in the spect scans. This is a corruption of the science. The spect scans are not faulty, but specialists appear not to know what to do with the information and are using this position to deny any treatment whatsoever. There is a wide gulf between the two positions.

    At least Dr Amen is proceeding on the basis that there is damage. Given the lack of effective treatments, then patients are justified in going down that road.
  18. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, all.

    Here's something I learned from Prof. Martin Pall a few years ago: SPECT scanning uses a radioactive form of the element technetium bound in a molecule that is injected, and then an image of the gamma ray emission from the brain is made. The resulting image is interpreted in terms of blood flow or perfusion of various parts of the brain. However, the oxidation state of technetium depends on the level of glutathione, and that affects whether the technetium stays inside cells or not, and thus affects the image. So a SPECT scan is not only sensitive to blood perfusion. It is also sensitive to the glutathione distribution. The recent study by Dr. Dikoma Shungu and colleagues has shown that glutathione is depleted in ME/CFS, in the part of the brain that was studied.

    Best regards,

    Rich
  19. Nielk

    Nielk

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    Hi Rich,

    I don't exactly understand/ Are you saying that because of the depletion of glutathione the spect image will be skewed to the effect that it will not show abnormalities even if they exist?
  20. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hi Nielk,

    As best I can remember, I've been reading about abnormal SPECT scans for pwCFS for about 20 years or more.

    Wayne

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