The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Brain Fog Solutions: Strattera or Lithium Orotate?

Discussion in 'Cognition' started by ebethc, Mar 12, 2015.

  1. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    The brain fog is killing me... I've tried a million supplements, and am working on healing my gut & adrenals, but I have to get back to work. I need an intervention while I'm healing.. Plus, who knows if my body will do what it's supposed to do. I'm beginning to give up on ever getting my cognition back by "healing" my body naturally. BTW - SAM-e works great for awhile, then seems to poop out. Tramadol works great on pain and somewhat on cognitive issues - then poops out. I'm thinking of trying Lithium Orotate & Strattera... thoughts?

    Does LIthium Orotate negatively affect hypothyroidism? I am HypoT, and don't want anything to make it worse! Not sure if the type of Lithium matters (i.e., i know at least some types of lithium hurt thyroid, but not sure if all are bad)... I only get emotional when I'm exhausted, and, well, when I'm at the end of my rope w my heath, which is now.

    If sam-e and tramadol pooped out (and anti-depressants don't do anything), does that mean that Strattera would not work on me, since it's a neurotransmitter drug?? Also, is it safe to raise norepinephrine if you are prone to panic attacks? I haven't had any panic attacks in years, but anxiety has been an ongoing problem for me my whole life..

    In addition to brain fog, I have constant joint pain, muscle aches, swollen sinuses, stomach probs, fatigue. All made worse by ANY amount of pollution & particulate matter, barometric pressure changes, high humidity. When my inflammation is down, it's like waving a magic wand over all my symptoms :)

    I've tried lots of things Bacopa, Vinpocetine, etc., but none of them really help to the extent that I need help...

    thanks.
     
  2. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    I'm on a supplement of Vinpo combined with Ginkgo and niacin. It worked great for awhile too, but after about four months I could tell it wasn't working quite as well, and at six months it's almost completely 'pooped out'. I think the best recourse is to find two or three things that do a similar job and rotate them every four to six months so the body can't adapt back to its (dysregulated!) version of homeostasis. That was one of the principles I learned at school, actually. :)

    I'm wary of anything that plays with my neurotransmitters, because increases in any of them throw me for a pretty spectacular loop; but everyone's different. I read the side-effects for Strattera, and it certainly appears as though it could be anxiogenic.

    Have you considered Rhodiola rosea? I tried it and it over-hyped me, but again... I'm VERY sensitive to neurotransmitter-y things. And the positive effects - focus, energy, even a slightly noticeable cheeriness - were pretty awesome.

    -J
     
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  3. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Have you considered methyl-folate and methyl-B12?
    Maybe you've already tried them?

    They helped my brain fog quite a lot. Not fully resolved, but significantly improved.

    cheers
     
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  4. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    @PeterPositive

    Agreed, absolutely. I noted a big jump in my brain function when I started taking an Antioxidant Blend that contained a number of things but included high-doses of the Bs. :)

    -J
     
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  5. jason30

    jason30 Senior Member

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    Ubiquinol helps my brain fog alot. MSM powder helps a bit.

    Cheers
     
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  6. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    Nail, meet head :) This is a simple but brilliant concept... I never thought of it that way, but that's probably what's going on...

    Maybe a SUPER low dose of Strattera would be worth trying, while I have good insurance... We'll see..

    Rhodiola did nothing for me... It was really disappointing, because on paper it seems perfect for me..

    thanks.
     
  7. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    Nothing helps my brain fog and I've tried everything everyone mentioned and more
     
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  8. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    Unfortunately, neither one has helped... I find that Niacinamide helps, which is weird because is supposedly "stops" methylation....Also, P5P sometimes... The methylation thing is too confusing for me... I experimented a lot w it in the past year, and paid people to help me with it, but to no avail... Another thing that SEEMED like it should help, but did NOTHING... Lots of wasted money...
     
  9. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    sorry to hear that.. it's frustrating.
     
  10. L'engle

    L'engle moogle

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    Lithium Orotate can affect your thyroid. If you are already low thyroid be careful. Do you know if you have autoimmune thyroid? Lithium orotate made my autoimmune thyroid problems flare and it has been more sensitive since. Be careful if you already know you have thyroid problems!
     
    ebethc likes this.
  11. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    Thanks for the feedback! I don't have thyroid antibodies, but I do think that my thyroid probs are AI anyway... I can't tolerate any iodine... I tried taking the smallest bit of lugol's iodine, and at first I felt great, but then crashed.. ugh

    any experience w yohimbe?? does that have adverse affects on thyroid? I'm just learning about it, so any feedback would be welcome..

    thanks
     
  12. L'engle

    L'engle moogle

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    Never tried yohimbe! If you find anything that works for brain fog I'd be very happy for you and anyone else it works for. Coq10 can help but can cause insomnia. It is well worth trying though since some people do really well with it.
     
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  13. SwanRonson

    SwanRonson Senior Member

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    I alternate back and forth between these two groups each day right now and it has helped my brain fog quite a bit:

    Day 1 - OmegaCo3 + UltraD Complex (Both by Apex)
    Day 2 - Enzymatic MethylB12 (125mcg) + 1/4 NaturMade b-complex + Pregnenolone (5mg)

    That's in addition to 1500mg of Solgar Vitamin C (Ester-C) each day (500mg capsule with each meal).

    I'm still not normal, but it's a lot better.
     
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  14. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    First day without my Vinpocetine + Gingko + Niacin... I've switched to Brain Awake from Irwin Naturals. Rather than vasodilators, it seems to be mostly B-vitamins and circulatory stimulants like ginger, black pepper, and rosemary, with some amino acids known to affect concentration. Also Bacopa and Green Tea (w/caffeine), and Tulsi (holy basil).

    I haven't noted spikes or drops in BP, which I worried about when going off of a vasodilator. Also, concentration, brain fog symptoms seem slightly improved again, which I'm going to call a win.

    BUT I was really hoping I would get that same sense of relief from the pressure at the back of my neck that I got when I first started the Vinpo. When I first took Vinpo, I felt a rush of returned blood flow to my scalp, which tingled, grew warm, and blood flow up the neck felt normal for the first time in ages. No such luck with the new formula vis a vis decreased sense of 'congestion' at the back of the skull.

    Anyone know what relieves that awful sense of pressure? It's not horribly painful so much as omnipresent with lapses into true discomfort, at least in my case. I apply Olbas topically and that really does help, but I'm looking for something I can take and hopefully forget about, rather than applying every four hours.

    @ebethc - what was your source for Rhodiola? I know everyone's different, but it's really hard for me to imagine something that had such a profound effect on me to have had NO effect on someone else. Also, at what dose were you taking it?

    Everyone - yohimbe is not something to be screwing around with. When it comes to herbs, your source and your dosage really matter, along with your individual chemistry, which can be influenced by genetics, health state, weight, etc. Yohimbe is a psychotropic; use with caution. :)

    -J
     
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  15. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    I used Gaia, http://www.gaiaherbs.com/products/detail/68/Rhodiola-Rosea

    Yep, "on paper" rhodiola is perfect for me, but it didn't do anything... Also, maca is really touted right now, and seems to be in everything, but it just made me very sick... Turns out it has iodine in it... Some say it doesn't but it really depends on what type of maca.. I believe that red maca is the one w extra iodine, but it usually is not indicated on the packaging... it was awful for me.
     
  16. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    Gaia's certainly a historically reliable brand, @ebethc. :)

    After I took Rhodiola the first time, I tried to take it again, with lesser effect; the third time I took it, it had no effect at all. This led me to conclude that (maybe) Rhodiola, rather than containing a cortisol-like or serotonin-like substance, encourages/catalyzes conversion of less active precursors into more biologically active molecules (like ACTH into cortisol, for example).

    Perhaps you don't have enough of the precursor chemical(s) to cause an effect; and perhaps my precursor-molecules were 'used up' very rapidly. Perhaps Rhodiola is something that works with available resources, and if you have none, it doesn't work!

    This is all very speculative, but I can't imagine why else an herb that had such a profound effect on me the first time would have little-to-no effect the second time. No one habituates that fast. Still, just because I can't think of another reason doesn't mean this rationale is right. I know how little I know!

    For Science, if you're willing to answer: are your cortisol or ACTH levels low? My cortisol is normal, but I don't tend to 'use' cortisol at a normal rate, and I don't make more, quickly. That would explain my reaction. If your cortisol has been low, we might have a better hypothesis about how Rhodiola works.

    -J
     
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  17. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    I should add that I went off the Brain Awake like lightning and ended up upping my Vinpo + Niacin + Gingko to three pills per day. It's really not good because it's causing vascular issues, but man... I like being able to turn my head and think in complete sentences! Still looking for options with fewer side effects.

    I don't think it'd be bothering me if I weren't taking the full dose, guys. I still recommend it, but start with one pill.

    -J
     
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  18. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    This is a great theory! so obvious, but it never occurred to me.. :)

    I've had this experience w several supps, SAM-e, Zinc in particular can make me feel great - even normal! - then they poop out.. I wish I understood chemistry better to guess or know which co-factors may be missing... Here are some good resources for cofactor explanation.. not complete, but a good start..


    http://lwtinternational.com/cofacto...the-missing-link-for-a-healthy-mind-and-body/

    http://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/P35520
     
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  19. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    do you know why niacin / niacinamide help brain function? I've noticed that niacinamide helps alot but only sometimes. thanks.
     
  20. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    @ebethc, I know niacin helps blood flow; that's probably why.

    ...I've been practically living at uniprot for awhile because of SNPs... that page looks very familiar. ;)

    -J
     
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