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Bouncing off the walls with folinic acid

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Creekee, Mar 15, 2013.

  1. Creekee

    Creekee Senior Member

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    I'm easing into Rich's SMP and last night added folinic acid for the first time. Mistakenly took the whole capsule (800mg) instead of a quarter. And I am feeling unbelievably good. I honestly don't remember the last time I felt this great. So...what does this mean? Can I / should I stay on the 800?

    Thanks for any input or advice!
  2. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

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    Sounds similar, I just started also. Just finished my second attempt to start. Felt very good initially, like the best in years. I think that's a very good sign that you are barking up the right tree. I assume you are already taking the B12? What form of B12 have you been taking and how much? Also you took folinic acid and not MFolate correct?
  3. Creekee

    Creekee Senior Member

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    sregan, Started with the Neuro Health Formula, then added Lecithin, then the sublingual hyroxo B12. All good. No discernable reaction good or bad. Then screwed up starting the folinic acid and bam! Happy feet! No FolaPro yet. My serum B12 and folate have been off the charts high so I've been wondering if I've got a functional deficiency. And now wondering if this response to folinic acid tends to confirm that (?). Still too ignorant to know what I'm doing over here!

    Can I ask what made you stop the protocol the first time?
  4. Victronix

    Victronix Senior Member

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    I don't know if folinic and methyl folate effects would be similar, but this website has a caution --



    That second response is what concerns me.

    My response was mostly the third, so I backed off and will try a scaled back amount when I get some of my other issues under control (i.e., thyroid).
    cph13 likes this.
  5. Victronix

    Victronix Senior Member

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    Here's someone else's advice from another thread:

  6. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

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    I would do as Victronix recommends. Start with 200mcg and work up from there.

    Started feeling very sick on days 3 and 4. I haven't worked my way up to Folicin as you have. I started with the b12 and folic acid together (200 mcg of each per day). I've posted on my blog my experience so far.
  7. Creekee

    Creekee Senior Member

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    Victronix: thanks much for the info and suggestions. Would be nice to know how closely this relates to the folinic acid, but does seem clear that it's best to start small. I've done 200 mgs of the folinic acid the last three nights with no noticeable effect. Only bounced off the walls for about 24 hours on the mega dose. But it's extremely exciting to experience that level of energy after all these years. Looking forward to playing around with this!
    Victronix likes this.
  8. Victronix

    Victronix Senior Member

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    Isn't it wonderful to have energy again? I got low on my thyroid and didn't realize and slogged around for months being half-alive, now am getting my life back.

    I had an interesting experience this past week where I stopped taking Vitamin C along with the B-Right because someone on the forum suggested that C will wipe out the benefits of methyl-folate if taken within 20 minutes, and after a few days I started feeling like I had a flu, got worse until I couldn't go to work, then realized -- "this must be the methyl-folate!" And apparently it was. I started taking the C again with my B-Right and now all the awful flu-like (muscle pains, weakness, nausea, exhaustion, headache) feelings are going away. It takes me at least a couple of days to recover, so I'm still home from work today. Amazing that such a miniscule amount (B-Right doesn't say how much is in there, but it's likely much smaller than 400) could cause that, and how C can wipe it away.
  9. Creekee

    Creekee Senior Member

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    Glad you told me that! I stopped C a couple weeks ago 'cuz my iron numbers were suddenly high. I was taking Amla C Plus which has a minuscule amount of iron in it, but it's the only place I can imagine that I'm getting any iron at all. Will look for a way to add some C back in.

    I haven't yet found anything that's reducing pain levels, but hopeful. As you say, it's just amazing simple supplements can have such dramatic effects.

    Feel better soon!
  10. Victronix

    Victronix Senior Member

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    Yes, apparently if you take C at least 20 minutes after other vitamins, it will have less impact on the effectiveness of them. I just take the natural factors chewable C. That's interesting that your iron is high. I hope you figure out what that's about.
  11. Creekee

    Creekee Senior Member

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    Yep, it's totally bizarre as I'm an overachiever in underproducing for the most part. Low thyroid, low D, low sex hormones, likely deficient in B12 and folate and stomach acid. Not sure if this is an ME trait or old age... ;-)
  12. UM MAN

    UM MAN

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  13. UM MAN

    UM MAN

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    Vitamin C is a great anti-histamine, maybe, without the C you had a histamine reaction.
  14. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Creekee,

    From the reaction I would say that it has worked very sell so far. That means you will go low on potassium in a few days and inflamamtion and pain could startup, sick feeling and all sortys of awful thing. This could be either donut hole folate insufficiency or if it is hard hitting, it could be methyltrap by not being able to convert HyCbl to MeCbl fast enough. The problem with folinic acid is that it may work at a low level and suddenly start blocking methylfolate and so suddenly reverse after the folinic acid unconverted builds up. Also, HyCbl isn't predictable at what rate it converts. it can start out converting ok and fade as the methylation capacity diminishes.

    If working with the AdoCbl and MeCbl at about 100mcg absorbed, and l-methylfolate, the results are far more predictable and most of the time the induced deficiencies can be recognized and corrected so that healing can be continued instead of chopping it off each time it starts.
  15. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Victronix,

    Vitamin C enhances iron absorbtion. On the other hand, iron blocks vit E and some others.
  16. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Victronix,

    I found that I got better absorbtion seperating the Vit C and the l-methylfolate. Also the potassium and l-methylfolate. Just why it interfers I have no idea. I'm glad to here some other people finding this to be so too. As far as more effect form the folate check that out against this list of symptoms that can start up with a dose of effecrtive folate.




    Group 1 – Hypokalemia onset. Symptoms may appear with serum potassium as high as 4.3. May become dangerous if ignored. Considered “rare” with cyanocobalamin it is very common with methylb12 and adensosylb12 and less so with hydroxycobalamin..

    IBS – Steady constipation , Nausea, Vomiting, Paralyzed Ileum, Hard knots of muscle, Sudden muscle spasms when relaxed, Sudden muscle spasms when stretching , Sudden muscle spasms when kneeling, Sudden muscle spasms when reaching , Sudden muscle spasms when turning upper body to side, Tightening of muscles, spasms and excruciating pain in neck muscles, waking up screaming in pain from muscle spasms in legs. Muscle weakness, Abnormal heart rhythms (dysrhythmias), Increased pulse rate, Increased blood pressure, Emotional changes and/or instability, dermal or sub-dermal Itching, and if not treated potentially paralysis and death.

    Group 2a - Both

    IBS – Diarrhea alternating with constipation, IBS – Normal alternating with constipation

    Group 2b – Either or both

    Headache, Increased malaise, Fatigue

    Group 3 - Induced and/or Paradoxical Folate deficiency or insufficiency

    IBS – Steady diarrhea, IBS – Diarrhea alternating with normal, Stomach ache, Uneasy digestive tract, increased hypersensitive responses , Skin rashes, Increased acne, Skin peeling around fingernails, Skin cracking and peeling at fingertips, Angular Cheilitis, Canker sores, Coated tongue, Runny nose, Increased allergies, Increased Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, Increased asthma, rapidly increasing Generalized inflammation in body, Increased Inflammation pain in muscles, Increased Inflammation pain in joints, Achy muscles, Flu like symptoms, Depression, Less sociable, Impaired planning and logic, Brain fog, Low energy, Light headedness, Sluggishness, Forgetfulness, Confusion, Difficulty walking, Behavioral disorders, Dementia, Reduced sense of taste, Increase irritability, Loss of reflexes, Fevers, Old symptoms returning, Heart palpitations, Bleeding easily.



    Group 4 - Hydroxycbl onset, degraded methylcbl onset, methylcbl after photolytic breakdown onset.

    Itchy bumps generally on scalp or face that develops to acne like lesions in a few days from start.
  17. Victronix

    Victronix Senior Member

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    I think I fit best with Group 3 -- IBS, exhaustion, aching all over and feel hot like I have a fever (the fever aspect is still hanging around even now, 3 days after stopping the separation of C and B-Right).

    If I have such a powerful response from just 50mcg of the Quatrefolic in B-Right (someone posted on Amazon that they called Jarrow to ask how much was folic acid and how much was methl-folate and they said the methylfolate was 50 mcg), I will have to titrate it down to probably 25 mcg to start, since I was unable to even go to work on the amount in a regular B-Right.

    I had tried the Douglas Labs B complex and again, even just 1/4 of one capsule was intolerable. But I can't go without the other B's so it's possible I'll try the method of taking each one separately, although I feel nervous about doing that, new brands, unknown responses, etc. I'd once tried a B-2 on its own and almost was put to sleep. I'm an extreme sensitive (COMT ++).
  18. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Victronix,

    If you do have the symptoms of donut hole folate insufficiency MORE l-methylfolate is needed to stop the symptoms. Less makes them worse.
  19. Creekee

    Creekee Senior Member

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    Thanks for the info, Freddd. Really appreciate your input. Apologies for being a methylation nitwit...I'm pretty early on the learning curve here. Are you recommending switching from HyCbl to AdoCbl and MeCbl? Or taking all three? Should I be supplementing potassium?

    Right now, I am feeling quite a bit better than when I started the protocol. Energy and stamina much improved. A bit of an increase in body pain, but otherwise...GOOD.
  20. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Creekee,

    Generally MeCbl-AdoCbl, will work like functional HyCbl, only more so. IF you want to see, the effect, you could add, the two to your HyCbl which likely won't make much difference at first. Add a crumb of each, the first day, two crumbs the next day and so on. Then if you suddenly find you are having some of the low potassium symptoms then a titration starts. If you suspect potassium, you can try 3 of the tablets with a glass of water. If it provides a some relief then repeat each few hours until symptoms are down and count how many in all, then take that number as a base over 4 -6 doses the next day, adding any additional doses needed during day for the next day. After the potassium, l-methylfolate can go low. This can actually alternate back and forth for a few days. Watch out for any extreme amounts, say over 3000mg. That indicates something that nobody has figured out yet.

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