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Borrelia spirochetes in human vaginal and seminal secretions - open peer review

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by justy, Oct 23, 2015.

  1. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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    Well worth a look for the review comments underneath the full study - I only read the abstract and reviews but the rebuttals by the authors in the comments to concerns is very thorough.

    http://f1000research.com/articles/3-309/v1
     
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  2. Antares in NYC

    Antares in NYC Senior Member

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    Not surprised at Dr. Donta's response. Raphael's comeback is pretty good, though.
    For full disclosure, I was a patient of Dr. Donta and I wasn't impressed with his methodology and approach. Aside from expanding abx treatment for Lyme, he's been pretty much in line with IDSA on everything else. They still kicked him out of the 2006 Lyme IDSA panel for his views on abx treatment.

    Beyond that, he seems to focus on Doxy and plaquenil as the only treatment for long term Lyme. I was underwhelmed in more ways than one, frankly.

    Also quite interesting how quickly IDSA panel member Dr. Baker jumped on this study citing outdated studies to bash any findings. I could have predicted this.

    One thing is right, though, the study could have used a larger sample and also collected other body fluids for comparison. Just my thoughts.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2015
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  3. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    You gotta love Phil Baker, attempting to refute human studies with animal studies conducted decades earlier.

    Come to think of it, wasn't he part of the same gang who said Monica Embers' monkey findings (demonstrating conventional antibiotics did not clear spirochetes from monkeys) couldn't be extrapolated to humans, back in 2012?
     
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  4. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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    I think Donta asks this question and Stricker and Middelveen respond:


    they also say that it would be good for further larger studies to be done - I suppose they may have been constricted by time and money? I agree though that a bigger study should be carried out.

    Of particular interest was the fact that all partners who were both infected had exactly the same strains of Bb. And that one partner was always more ill than the other.
     
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  5. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    Odds are they would be infected with the same strain, even if sexual transmission wasn't involved. At least in terms of probability, they should be bitten by ticks carrying strains peculiar to a given general geography; chances are in a single household, a given strain will surface repeatedly.

    The question should reduce down to CAN Bb be transmitted sexually. I think denialists would be hard-pressed to show it cannot be.
     
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  6. Antares in NYC

    Antares in NYC Senior Member

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    Bingo!
    Wormser makes sure to mention time and time again that any animal studies regarding Lyme can NOT be extrapolated to human models, ever. I've seen at least two interviews where he says that. On the second one (in a Canadian documentary about the Lyme epidemic) he qualified his answer with "...in the United States."
    Riiiight...


    (check it out at minute 40:08)


    In the same documentary, a frustrated Canadian Lyme researcher tells us, shaking his head, that Lyme persists and kills dogs and horses... but apparently that can't be extrapolated to humans.You do the math.


    (check minute 32:45)

    If you haven't seen it, please check out this remarkable documentary. It shows how the IDSA guidelines are being enforced in Canada with an iron fist, and people have to cross the border to the States to get treated. It also shows LLMDs who were extremely sick Lyme patients before, and now they are devoting their entire careers to help others get out of this horrible situation, even putting their careers and reputation on the line. Heroes.



     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2015
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  7. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    A friend of mine was in this study--a doctor. This person felt that the study was done well and significant--given the limitations of small sample size.
     
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