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Borrelia: Sexual transmission

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by Sushi, Mar 3, 2014.

  1. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Lyme transmitted sexually: Details of the research paper
    March 1, 2014 at 3:21pm
    Lyme transmitted sexually: Details of the research paper:

    Journal of Investigative Medicine 2014;62:280-281.

    ISOLATION AND DETECTION OF BORRELIA BURGDORFERI FROM HUMAN VAGINAL AND SEMINAL SECRETIONS

    Middelveen MJ Bandoski C, Burke J, Sapi E, Mayne PJ, Stricker RB

    Background: Previous epidemiological and immunological studies suggest
    that infection with the Lyme disease spirochete Borrelia burgdorferi
    could be transferred from person to person via intimate human contact
    without a tick vector (Harvey and Salvato, Med Hypotheses 2003;60:742;
    Stricker et al, J Investig Med 2004;52:S151).
    Detecting viable spirochetes in vaginal and seminal secretions would
    provide additional evidence to support this hypothesis.

    Methods: Three North American patients with a history of Lyme disease,
    one male and two female, were selected for the study after informed
    consent was obtained.
    Serological testing for B. burgdorferi was performed on all three
    subjects. Blood and semen or vaginal secretions were used to inoculate
    BSK-‐H medium for Borrelia culture. Motile spirochetes were detected in
    cultures by light and/or darkfield microscopy, and cultured spirochete
    concentrates were subjected to Dieterle silver staining, scanning
    electron microscopy (SEM) and anti-‐B. burgdorferi immunohistochemical
    staining for further characterization. Polymerase chain reaction (PCR)
    testing was performed by two independent laboratories for specific
    identification of the cultured isolates. Positive and negative controls
    for immunohistochemical staining and PCR were performed in all experiments.

    Results: Serum antibodies to B. burgdorferi were detected in all three
    patients. Motile spirochetes were observed in culture fluid inoculated
    with blood and genital secretions from the three subjects.
    Morphological features of spirochetes were confirmed by Dieterle
    staining, SEM and immunohistochemical staining of culture concentrates.
    PCR testing confirmed that the spirochetes isolated from blood and
    genital secretions were strains of B. burgdorferi, and PCR subtyping
    indicated that the strains were B. burgdorferi sensu stricto.

    Conclusions: The culture of viable B. burgdorferi in genital secretions
    suggests that Lyme disease could be transmitted by intimate contact from
    person to person.
    leela, snowathlete, merylg and 2 others like this.
  2. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    In so many ways: Ewww! :eek:
    SOC and leela like this.
  3. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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    argh... the new hiv...
    i was curious to ask you girls (and guys)... i often read that a tipical feature of lyme disease is that symptoms come and go and that they migrate through the body.
    I read this a lot of times and heard from a lot of doctors

    But chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia often do not have come and go symptoms or migrating symptoms.

    They often are pretty persistent ... for example in my case i have a LTT test positive but my symptoms in 8 years never migrated and never wax and wane.
    I have several muscle areas in my body which are 24h 24 sore since 8 years, never a day without and my symptoms are present 24 h a day they don't wax and wayne, they don't migrate.

    So this feature of my "CFS" or whatever it is is a bit in contrast to the tipical features of lyme, i also do not have bad days and good days but my condition worsened slightly but steadily.
    Infact at first tehy thought some kind of myopathy or neuropathy or something like Isaac syndrome (but tests ruled them out)..and now i have this LTT test positive..
    i would like to have your opinion..

    @Sushi @Valentijn @Martial
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2014
  4. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    I'm inclined to think that Lyme and ME/CFS are separate illnesses with an overlap. Thus far there hasn't been overwhelming evidence of a single infection preceding the development of ME/CFS, yet most patients had a seemingly infectious onset. Hence I think it's likely that Lyme can be sometimes trigger ME/CFS, or interact with other genetic or infectious or environmental factors to trigger ME/CFS - but so can dozens of other things, absent Lyme.

    PEM is also not a symptom of Lyme in the most patients, which would be another indication of having two illnesses at the same time, even if one preceded and triggered the other.
    serg1942, peggy-sue and SOC like this.
  5. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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    Yes... that's was what i think too.. i now have this LTT test positive but i find it hard to link my main symptoms to borrelia because they are so atipical.... uff!!!
    Thanks Vale
  6. Tito

    Tito Senior Member

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    Well, it is not the first research that indicates that some patients (here 3 persons) have positive semen/vaginal samples. It may suggest a potential sexual transmission. However, it is unknown whether the cells on the "receiving end" in a real individual are capable of being infected.

    I think the comparison with HIV is inappropriate. HIV is believed to have appeared around 1900. A hundred years later, some countries had a prevalence rate of nearly 40%. Borrelia has been around for thousands of years (a 5300 year-old ice mummy was recently tested positive). If Borrelia transmission rate via sexual contact was similar to the one of HIV, then almost 100% of the world population would have had Lyme at some stage in their life over the centuries. There is currently no data to suggest this.

    It is therefore not unreasonable to assume that the risk of sexual transmission of Lyme is very low if any.
  7. beaverfury

    beaverfury beaverfury

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    Hope we hear more about this study. Certainly seems alarming, though i'm easily alarmed.

    Found this article where they quoted a spokesmen for the CDC pouring a bit of cold water on the study.
    Not surprising, even though i'm easily surprised.


    http://theweek.com/article/index/255971/the-newest-std-lyme-disease

    Update
    : After this story was published, Benjamin Haynes, a spokesperson for the Infectious Disease Team at the CDC, sent us this statement: "The study had a very small sample size [and] it was not published in a peer-reviewed journal. Additionally, the researchers didn’t specify if validated methods were used to determine that the bacteria were Borrelia burgdorferi [the bacteria that causes Lyme disease]. Since many questions about this project remain, we are unable to answer further questions about it."
    merylg and Ema like this.
  8. Legolas

    Legolas

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    I'm in treatment with DML and I'm positive for Borrelia (LTT) and Bartonella.
    I' don't have fluctuating symptoms, they do not migrate through my body, i don't have artritis or any kind of pain, I never had a ECM of Bartonella stripes. In other words I'm not what you would call a typical lyme patient.
    But my symptoms do arise from these infections since i improve greatly on antibiotics and samento/ banderol!
    My advise; Get treatment for lyme! After a year (or more) of several antibiotics i still herx on samento and banderol, which means these products are pretty strong. So I definitely recommend these, but keep in mind it is a looong en bumpy road towards improvement and recovery.
    serg1942 and merylg like this.
  9. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

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    I think it's safe to say most if not all bugs are not "new" but have been around for millennia.
    What *is* new is a planet flooded with highly toxic chemicals, in immeasurable quantities, in the air, the water, the food supply and the entire food chain, in all the products we wear, sleep on, spread on our skin, use in and on our homes, in the manufacturing of plastics for cars, electronics, food storage...need I go on?

    These are carcinogens, neurotoxins and endocrine disruptors. This has the effect of overtaxing and/or dampening down the immune system and causing damage/stress to the CNS.

    Mold is an ancient organism as well. So why are there "suddenly" organisms like Lyme, mold, and viruses that are harming people in massive proportions? Sometimes in epidemic outbreaks? Because never before in history have we been coexisting with these organisms while trying to process a constant onslaught of chemical soup that is itself demanding and damaging to the immune and neurological systems.

    We are usually able to keep these things in check. But when all the usual systems for that job are overloaded with the job of trying to manage a neverending pile of garbage, it's no wonder the parasitic/infectious entities can just move right in and settle down.
    merylg and justy like this.
  10. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    Bacteria and viruses have a very short life cycle - they get through thousands of generations very rapidly.

    Diseases evolve faster than any other organisms - (remember, it's a different "cold" strain that we have to tackle every yea)r.

    And, as Leela has pointed out, there are so many new environments, with new chemical compositions around now.

    Things will evolve rapidly to take advantage of those new environments...
    merylg likes this.
  11. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    @joshi81

    I tend to agree with @Valentijn here. We don't fully know what we are dealing with even though we can now identify some of the pathogens. But "Who did what and when?" is still unclear.

    Sushi
    merylg and Valentijn like this.
  12. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    That's why you don't *treat* perfectly healthy people who test positive for Lyme, EBV, CMV, etc...it isn't about the pathogens, it's about the immune system dysfunction.
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  13. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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    hi @Legolas interesting your post... which tests are positive for you? just the LTT or did u run also other tests ? were u positive to antibodies or westernblot?
    And DeMerlier put you on samento and banderol from the very start or you did course of Antibiotics too?
    And which are your symptoms.
    Sorry for the many question but i'm tring to make an idea through other's experiences
    thank u

    oh i woud like also to know if possible what were the score of your LTT, mine was 6,5,5 when it should all be < 2
    merylg likes this.
  14. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    @joshi81


    Hey Joshi, to answer your questions I think based on the fact you tested positive at all means you need immediate treatment of the lyme disease, also all of your symptoms can happen with lyme, there are plenty of people with lyme that have PEM, and a large percentage do not have good and bad days, or waxing waning symptoms.. The good and bad day's along with waxing symptoms sometimes only happens after a while of being treated.. It is all dependent on how compromised the immune system is, how heavy of a bacterial load there is, and people's issues with detoxing and tons of co infections or other issues like heavy metal toxicity. You really have to treat lyme disease from ALL aspects that include many, many other issues..

    Virtually there really is no difference in symptoms between CFS, and Lyme. You can have patients that may be ALOT sicker then others with lyme and some with just minor things but in some cases usually the untreated chronic ones there is no difference between C.F.S, Lyme, M.E. in symptoms. Again its not always just the lyme disease which makes some people kind of sick and others completely bedridden, usually there are always other issues contributing like parasites, mold toxicities, co infections, re activated viruses, heavy metal build up due to faulty detox mechanisms, severe deficiencies etc...

    Here is a link I posted recently that goes through some important key points in Chronic lyme and regarding the best treatment which is not a one size fits all type of thing...


    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...sease-treatment-conference.28652/#post-435820


    Whatever you do man, just seek treatment ASAP you don't need to wait around and figure out if you have CFS, or Lyme and let infections grow in size as a result.. If you get better after adequate treatment of the lyme then you will know what was causing you to be sick this whole time, though once again its not JUST about the lyme bacteria but treating all the faulty functioning that is going on and sometimes it can take upwards of a year+ to start seeing some real results and detoxing the body fully, while treating infections etc...
    merylg and Blue like this.
  15. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    Exactly. Our biggest problem is that the majority of doctors, thanks to the psychologizers, refuse to see that we AREN'T perfectly healthy people who test positive, we are SICK people testing positive. Positive tests AND symptoms requires treatment. Immune dysfunction is preventing our bodies from handling the infections the way perfectly healthy bodies do. Duh! They'd see it if we had HIV or were taking immune-suppressing drugs, but they can't seem to envision the possibility of other immune dysfunctions having the same effect. :rolleyes:

    Sometimes the lack of critical thinking and basic problem-solving in medicine drives me crazy. :bang-head:
    NK17, Sushi, peggy-sue and 4 others like this.
  16. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Thank "evidence based medicine" too...

    Great article...a must read.

    http://protomag.com/assets/evidence-based-medicine-burden-of-proof

    "The new mammography recommendations joined a growing body of research that falls under the rubric of evidence-based medicine.

    This approach is based on the belief that medical care will be better, safer and more efficient if physicians base clinical judgments on solid empirical science.

    Backed by such evidence, government agencies, specialty medical societies, disease associations and large health plans have developed guidelines that set out exactly which drugs, tests and treatments doctors should use to manage a vast array of medical conditions.

    Insurers follow evidence-based guidelines to make decisions about which interventions they will cover. And Medicare and private health plans have utilized guidelines to extrapolate hallmarks of quality and hold physicians and hospitals accountable for meeting them."

    "The furor illustrates one of the biggest problems with evidence-based medicine—that it can be almost impossible to produce the kind of rock-solid evidence that will convince physicians (and the public) that a particular intervention, preventive measure or diagnostic test really is the best medicine. Though the USPSTF recommendations were never meant to apply to every patient, nuance was quickly lost in the uproar. Those who objected to the organization’s conclusions simply found medical evidence they liked better: the American Cancer Society’s guidelines calling for women to receive yearly mammograms once they turn 40. “It can be challenging to make medical decisions when august groups of clinical experts look at the same evidence and, based on their beliefs about its strength, come to very different conclusions,” Pearson says."

    So much for clinical judgment and expertise under this system...
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  17. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    Suspected and known by most LLMD's for a long time. Yet, when you show this very small casestudy to an infectious disease specialist or any other MD it will be frowned upon and disregarded because it's not a double-blind placebo controlled study, a study which would cost millions.

    Isn't there currently a larger study being held to proof borrelia is sexually transmitted? Was it that or a study showing pets, especially cats being able to transmit lyme?
  18. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Yeah, I thought a more appropriate reaction would be: "That's somewhat interesting, we'll look into that a bit more and see if we can replicate that and/or look into sexual transmission of the bacteria from other angles to see if it can result in actual infection."

    Instead they just try to trash the trial and make it disappear. I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but their approach seems extremely unprofessional at the very least.
    peggy-sue and Ema like this.
  19. Firestormm

    Firestormm Senior Member

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    Err there was no treatment in this study, so you would only really need a control study or randomised control study would be better. And they needn't be expensive to try and prove a point. However, there is evidence that would need to be overcome before such provisional research as above can make inroads into current thinking. You need to demonstrate that what the theories of the past - and the biological nature of this bacterium - had been wrong or misunderstood. For example:

  20. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    The studies you quote are pretty much the CDC/IDSA's understanding and represent only one side of a very contentious political and medical debate.

    This site is actually very pro-CDC...and even they have to admit breastfeeding isn't a good idea if you've been diagnosed with Lyme.

    - See more at: http://www.infantrisk.com/content/i...eastfeeding-lyme-disease#sthash.YdVzhSIM.dpuf

    But the point is that their preliminary results should be investigated further, not summarily dismissed by the CDC because they don't fit their (already shown to be flawed in many ways) paradigm of Lyme disease.

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