Phoenix Rising supports the Millions Missing global day of protest
Phoenix Rising is delighted to support the demands being made in the ME/CFS community’s first-ever global day of protest …
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Borrelia positive through Arminlabs. I am positive or not?

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by ECAsson, Apr 20, 2016.

  1. ECAsson

    ECAsson

    Messages:
    36
    Likes:
    38
    Sweden
    Hey,


    So I got positive for Borrelia, EBV, Coxsackie.

    Also:
    Positive for Erchilia (Elispot), negative through antibodies.
    Positive for Chlaymidia Pneumonie (antibodies), negative through Elispot.
    Mycoplasma (antibodies, bordeline infection)

    Screen Shot 2016-04-20 at 5.17.49 PM.png

    My CD 57 cell count is 32. 100-360 (normal range), that clearly indicates a chronic bacterial infection. Dr. Armin himself says that my low CD 57 value is a result of Borrelia + Erchilia.


    Now the problem is that my Borrelia values are quite low. 3, being the highest.
    I am not the typical Borrelia patient, I lack joint/muscle pains, severe headaches, vision problems. My problems are the hidden respiratory/urinary infections, flu-like symptoms, brain fog, memory problems, anxiety/depression.
    Am I really Borrelia positive?
    One thing that is worth mentioning is that I do improve on antibiotics, especially on penicillin and doxaxycline.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2016
    duncan and merylg like this.
  2. msf

    msf Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,197
    Likes:
    4,483
    I can´t see your Ehrlichia values - were they borderline too? If they are high, I think that increases the likelihood that you have been bitten by a tick, but there is a lot of debate about this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2016
    duncan likes this.
  3. ECAsson

    ECAsson

    Messages:
    36
    Likes:
    38
    Sweden
    Screen Shot 2016-04-20 at 5.22.57 PM.png
    It is not high either.
     
  4. msf

    msf Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,197
    Likes:
    4,483
    Hmm, then I guess they could both be because the cut off point is too low. Do you know if the antibodies to Cpn and Mycoplasma are suggestive of an active infection?
     
  5. msf

    msf Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,197
    Likes:
    4,483
    Oh, you didn´t say whether you were positive on antibodies for Borrelia.
     
  6. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

    Messages:
    3,512
    Likes:
    3,096
    UK
    I lacked joint pain and vision problems for a while too....not so now.
     
  7. msf

    msf Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,197
    Likes:
    4,483
    I didn´t even know that headaches and vision problems are associated with Lyme.
     
  8. ECAsson

    ECAsson

    Messages:
    36
    Likes:
    38
    Sweden

    They are not. CPn showed positive to antibodies, but negative to Elispot (so no active infection)
    Mycoplasma's antibodies were borderline.

    So my low CD57 count cannot be explained through CPn and Mycoplasma's presence. twar.png
     
    duncan likes this.
  9. ECAsson

    ECAsson

    Messages:
    36
    Likes:
    38
    Sweden

    I just took Elispot + CD57 count tests
     
  10. msf

    msf Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,197
    Likes:
    4,483
    As far as I recall, the one paper published on this subject suggested that the Cpn ELISPOT wasn´t as useful as the antibody test, but I might have got that the wrong way round.

    This was the paper I was talking about: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3565243/ It seems to suggest that neither the LTT or the antibody tests are that useful at the moment. If you look at Table 2 though, the results of both seemed to agree fairly well in one patient population.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2016
  11. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,039
    Likes:
    4,472
    Neuro-Lyme sports those symptoms sometimes.

    All tests will prove is exposure, hence the need for a clinical diagnosis. It helps to test positive, though, often more for the clinician than the patient.

    Still, shy of a culture, there is no way of proving active infection, although a positive pcr comes close. The Elispot has an additional strike in that it is not accepted yet by mainstream Lyme interests like the IDSA - even though their accepted tests pretty much suck.

    The patients keep on losing here. The only winners consistently are insurance companies.
     
    justy and ECAsson like this.
  12. msf

    msf Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,197
    Likes:
    4,483
    Perhaps you should get the Western Blot done then.
     
    ECAsson and duncan like this.
  13. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,039
    Likes:
    4,472
    The WB for sensu lato - you might need to test for Bb and garinii and afzelii.
     
    Valentijn and ECAsson like this.
  14. ECAsson

    ECAsson

    Messages:
    36
    Likes:
    38
    Sweden
    As you can see, I am really confused.
    Dr. Armin is sure I have Borrelia.

    2 facts straightening this are:

    1) The low CD57 count in the absence of CPn and Mycoplasma bacterial activity.
    2) My response to antibiotics.

    2 facts that counterargument Borrelia hypothesis:

    1) The relatively low values that are borderline
    2) No history of thick bites that I can recall


    I thought these tests would shed some light on my health situation, but it made it even worse
     
  15. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,039
    Likes:
    4,472
    He might be right. It's nice to be sure.
     
  16. msf

    msf Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,197
    Likes:
    4,483
    Yes, like a lot of people I think you have to weigh up the fact that these tests haven´t been shown to be effective by several groups against the circumstantial evidence, which isn´t easy to do and really leaves it up to the individual as to whether it is worthwhile pursuing treatment.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2016
  17. ECAsson

    ECAsson

    Messages:
    36
    Likes:
    38
    Sweden

    Yes, but I don't want to spend my life in treating Borrelia to no avail, or to believe I have Borrelia when my problem in reality could be a virus.
    plus that antibiotics are not really ''vitamins'' to your body either :)
     
  18. msf

    msf Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,197
    Likes:
    4,483
    No, it´s not an easy decision to make.
     
  19. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

    Messages:
    5,310
    Likes:
    12,093
    U.K
    Having low values doesn't mean you are 'less positive', my LTT for lyme was lower than yours and I have a clinical dx. You have Elrichia, Lyme on the LTT and a supressed immune system (CD57) I would have thought Lyme was highly likely from this scenario.
     
  20. ECAsson

    ECAsson

    Messages:
    36
    Likes:
    38
    Sweden

    No Mycoplasma and Chalamydia Pneumonie, even though tested positive?
    I know that it's not really important treatment wise, as they all respond to doxycicline, but both Chalymdia Pneunomie and Mycoplasma describe my symtoms better than Borrelia
     
    justy likes this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page