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Borrelia Biofilms Found In Vivo

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by msf, May 5, 2016.

  1. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27141311

    If I was a relatively smart IDSA member I would be feeling a bit worried now.

    I believe Zhang´s group are also looking at biofilms, but from a persister angle - is that right?
     
  2. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    Zhang is certainly looking at persisters, but I'm not sure about the biofilm aspect.

    I think the new IDSA Guidelines are due out this Fall. Last edition had about 400 references, which appeared to revolve mostly around findings which supported the association's much publicized stance.

    I wonder how much space will be dedicated to the topics of biofilms and persisters? I suspect they will be given a mention, but biofilms perhaps will be presented as pretty much benign and common phenomenon (and not truly proven relative to Bb), and Bb persisters as peculiarities that have only been demonstrated in vitro, and are likely cleared out by one's immune system after standard therapy.

    Will there be 400 references again? I wouldn't be surprised. I would be a little surprised if this one makes it if only because of A. MacDonald's signature.

    This effort is Science, imo. Not quite sure I would make the same claim about the recent NIH study which interviewed ex-Lyme patients to see what their QoL was, reportedly failed to interview those whose continued symptoms might earn PTLDS status, and declared the QoL of ex- Lyme patients was often better than healthy individuals. Now I would wager a large sum that THOSE study results will find their way into the new Guidelines.
     
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  3. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    Ok, I seem to have half-remembered it correctly: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26903956

    The experiment was done on ´biofilm-like microcolonies.´ Does that imply that they are smaller than biofilms? I would be surprised if the same drugs that target biofilms effectively also target persisters, but then I don´t know much about either.
     
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  4. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    Since we are on this subject, I thought I´d mention that at a recent Lyme conference Horowitz claimed to be having success targeting persisters with repurposed leprosy drugs (which apparently also forms persisters).
     
    Mel9 likes this.
  5. Vitalic

    Vitalic Senior Member

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    If they used internet lingo for study titles this study would be called: "shit just got real".
     
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  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    This makes me wonder whether using the bioelectric effect, where a small electric current increases the killing efficacy of antibiotics against bacteria in biofilms by a factor of 100 million, might be useful in Lyme disease. See here and here.
     
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  7. student

    student Senior Member

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    Yes, Electro magnetic is effective against forming of biofilm-structures. Garlic also is metnioned at times. Than it rases another field. Existing cavities are often already formed.

    As if this where not – the contend of biofilm-bodies - that becomes highly problematik....

    The thought – of quick responce (in a sence of destruction/ killing has) turned out to be most dangerous for the already thick. There has to be a strong binding agent... HPU (plus lyme) has found to give an additional burdon – on biofilm „ropes“ as discussed 2013/ 2014. http://bacteriality.com/2008/05/biofilm/ And a lot of the procedures attacing that conglomeration – turning out to burst – has led to toxique spill of this contend.
    (IN 7 Minutes, 50:00 bis 57:00 of this 1kxqfE2VfD8 german youtoub of Klinghardt 2014 descibes these later forming „ropes“ as containing toxic: Led 100x, Cadmium 120x, Aluminium 230x times higher than the body load.) Klinghard talks in a german source of a 100- 300 fold burdon of led, plus Aluminium, cadmium and others. The detox in HPU (not kpu) http://www.viddler.com/v/ad0ea39d is more vulnerable. - So leading – them with rectal enemas of diffrent kind – towards floating out as a whole peace. That will be the most clever detox handeling of our future-CFS therapie approaches.

    Student
    What will be – our safe and soft-future strategies – to deliver all this material from a rectal approach? What do we do after formation of these cavities....
     

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