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Borrelia – In the Lymelight

Discussion in 'Phoenix Rising Articles' started by Phoenix Rising Team, Mar 8, 2013.

  1. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    From the ILADS website:

    "Lyme disease is a problematic diagnosis. The position adopted by the CDC makes it more complicated. Many patients do not elicit an antibody response great enough to be positive by currently available ELISA assays. In fact, studies conducted by the group responsible for Lyme Disease proficiency testing for the College of American Pathologists (CAP) concluded that the currently available ELISA assays for Lyme Disease do not have adequate sensitivity to be part of the two-tiered approach of the CDC/ASPHLD."
    justinreilly and snowathlete like this.
  2. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    From LymeNetEurope:

    http://www.lymeneteurope.org/info/laboratory-tests

    "When a lab reports that their ELISA test has had high specificity and high sensitivity, it is usually interpreted by doctors as being a more accurate test, but the doctors don't know what the lab is actually measuring. One of the hidden problems of serologic Lyme tests is the fact that the tests must be primed with a source of bacteria to create the reactions with the patient's antibodies. To do this, virtually all labs rely on a laboratory strain of Bb known as strain B-31.Taking purified antigens from strain B-31 and injecting them into mice, they then can extract a monoclonal antibody to each antigen, or a polyvalent antibody soup. This antibody is concentrated and purified, and then added to the ELISA test to test the efficacy and performance of the test. Unlike the wild strains, B-31 grows well in culture, and this makes it a perfect choice as a consistent and inexpensive source of Bb. But the affinity the mouse monoclonal antibody has to B-31 antigen is quite different from the affinity the patients' antibodies have to the same antigen. This means the test may register as negative because the test cannot detect the slightly different antibody profile that a wild strain of Bb can produce. In other words, the labs are really comparing apples to oranges! This is why, when the American College of Pathologists used human sera to test the accuracy of 516 different laboratories ELISA tests nation wide, the overall accuracy was only 45%.

    In the quest for specificity, most ELISA tests have become so specific that the test may fail to detect antibodies from related strains of Borrelia. This would include different genospecies that cause Lyme disease, as well as different Borrelia species that cause Tickborne Relapsing Fever. Would a cross reaction to the Borrelia species that cause Tick-borne Relapsing Fever be so bad?"



    "In one year-long study by Dr. Sam Donta, MD, done on chronic Lyme patients, the initial ELISA tests proved to be more than 66+% inaccurate (1996 LDF Conference lecture). Other researchers have also found the ELISA tests to be inaccurate. Using a 45-panel diagnostic testing protocol from the NIH for testing the efficacy of the ELISA and Western Blot, researchers found the accuracy of the Lyme ELISA varied from about 5075%, and were routinely inconsistent. The CDC's ELISA test did no better on average than any other ELISA. It is the CDC ELISA test which is used for surveillance of emerging Lyme disease in the United States, yet the test was correct only about two out every three tests. Too often, a single negative ELISA test can prevent a sick patient from getting treatment, even despite having serious symptoms!"
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  3. GcMAF Australia

    GcMAF Australia Senior Member

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    We have sent letter to Australian Chief Medical officer with our demands
    is in PDf
    so i dont know where to post it here
    snowathlete likes this.
  4. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    That sounds great. Would love to see it. If it is online somewhere already, on another site, you could post a link to it. If not you can attach a file to a post (not sure what the file limits are).
  5. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    FYI: Mono or EBV can be reactivated within 4 hours after a Lyme bite!
    merylg, taniaaust1 and snowathlete like this.
  6. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    If you have bartonella (better known as cat scratch disease), you might not be able to produce antibodies to Lyme anymore.

    Bartonella is hard to detect as well. It replicates very slowly and labs only test two species while over 10 species can make you sick with ME-like symptoms.

    http://medmonthly.com/2012/07/bartonella-a-new-frontier-in-chronic-disease
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  7. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    If you like to figure out what symptoms belong to Lyme and co-infections, read this document or give it to your doctor: Just excellent and very readable!

    Chronic Lyme Disease and Co-infections: Differential Diagnosis

    Walter Berghoff*
    Practice of Internal Medicine, Rheinbach, 53359, Germany
    Full text
    http://www.benthamscience.com/open/toneuj/articles/V006/SI0078TONEUJ/158TONEUJ.pdf
  8. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    Thats interesting. Do you have a source? Not doubting what you're saying, just wouldnt mind reading more about it.
  9. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    Bartonella is one of the zoonotics that I might cover in a future article. I expect a bunch of people have this instead of, or as well as their ME/CFS.
    merylg likes this.
  10. GcMAF Australia

    GcMAF Australia Senior Member

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  11. GcMAF Australia

    GcMAF Australia Senior Member

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    damn it Janet
    did not post
    commercial channell doing stuff on Lyme in Sydney
    looks like could coincide with conference
    we may crack it bigtime this weekend
    and Uni study on people with Lyme- not sure of the details
    CHEERS
    merylg likes this.
  12. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    2003, Hulinska, Interaction of Borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato with Epstein-Barr virus in lymphoblastoid cells. Since the possibility of interruption of latent EBV infection has been suggested by the induction of the lytic virus cycle with chemical substances, other viruses, and by immunosuppression, we hypothesized that the same effect might happen in B. burgdorferi sensu lato infection as happens in Lyme disease patients with positive serology for both agents. We have observed EBV replication in lymphoblastoid cells after superinfection with B. garinii and B. afzelii strains after 1 and 4 h of their interaction. We found that viral and borrelial antigens persisted in the lymphoblasts for 3 and 4 days. Morphological and functional transformation of both agents facilitate their transfer to daughter cells. Association with lymphoblasts and internalization of B. garinii by tube phagocytosis increased replication of viruses more successfully than B. afzelii and chemical inductors. Demonstration of such findings must be interpreted cautiously, but may prove a mixed borrelial and viral cause of severe neurological disease.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12630667
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  13. Spring

    Spring Senior Member

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    In the Netherlands I know at least 20 patients formerly diagnosed as ME/cfs who tested positive for Lyme on different lyme tests. There are also some who were negative on all kinds of testing. But if they have very low CD57 clinical diagnosis of lyme still can be made.

    De Meirleir talks about it in his 12th video. It will be a while before that one is translated.
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  14. Shoesies

    Shoesies Senior Member

    Waiting for that one!
  15. merylg

    merylg Senior Member

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    http://www.karlmcmanusfoundation.org.au/

    1st International Tick Borne Diseases Conference - Addressing the Complexities 15th - 17th March, 2013
    Royal Prince Alfred Hospital
    Sydney, Australia

    Starts today! :thumbsup:
    snowathlete and taniaaust1 like this.
  16. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I just looked up bartonella and wish I didnt. I didnt know before that its caused by cats. I once got bitten by a cat and it got infected to the point that the wound was very inflammed and ended up gooing everywhere due to infection and I had to take a course of antibiotics for that cat bite. I think I already had ME when I had that occur so wouldnt be surprised if I had yet another coexisting infection with everything else. Ive been getting lately one of my older ME symptoms of feeling like Ive got arthritis in a finger joint (years ago I used to have it badly in the finger joints and the pain would move around to various joints), its not there today but I had it again yesterday.
  17. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Tania, maybe you should get checked to see whether you still have Bartonella. The good aspect is that if you do, it can be treated. The difficult aspect is that it is a hard treatment.

    Best,
    Sushi
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  18. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    Yeah, as Sushi says, worth getting checked. One of my earliest memories is being scratched badly by a cat. That was very sore. I also get a problem with some kind of arthritis in one of my finger joints. Only one and its worse sometimes than others.
  19. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Ive printed off the "Bartonella: A new frontier in chronic disease" thing to take to doctors to try to convince one to test me next time I get to go to one. It says on that sheet "recommendations for medical practioners: . Consider testing patients at high risk who present with general rheumatic or neurological symptoms for Bartonella infection" (I get a ton of neuro symptoms including what appear to be seizures). It lists the Symptoms for bartonella as being "may range from reincuring fever, headaches, insomina, joint/muscle aches and pains, myalgia, neurocognitive dysfunction, seizures, vasculitis and vaso-proliferative tumors or lesions as well as more common lymphdenopathy and splenomegaly" (Ive italics all the symptoms there I get at times with the ME). One thing which is different to my ME then what many get was the VERY HIGH reincurring fevers I used to get (I still do get fevers at times but they are mild now) also the seizures (not related to the fevers, I think the seizure incidences thou may be related to the POTS).

    The article says Bartonella has also been documented to cause osteomyelitis. I used to be in agony due to pain which felt like it was inside my bones (the doctors ignored it but it was very severe.. I used to cry from the pain in my bones so I think I probably had osteomyelitis at the time. Im not having much issues with the Bartonella symptoms now as my ME has changed (predominant POTS now).

    I used to do a lot of animal rescue stuff with my main love being cats.. so been scatched a lot, not just that deep puncture cat bite which got infected). Hopefully I can convince a dr to get a test (not sure thou even if there is tests for this in Australia. The lab Im going to be doing my lyme test throu.. didnt have Bartonella on its list it sent out). I can do the lyme test in 1 week (been waiting for antimicrobial herb to get out of my body before doing the test).
  20. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    One of the sad things is that the standard tests only test for a couple of the strains of Bartonella and don't test for a strain that has been found in many ME patients. Not much you can do about it though without access to a lab that tests more strains.

    Sushi

    Sushi

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