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Borrelia – In the Lymelight

Discussion in 'Phoenix Rising Articles' started by Phoenix Rising Team, Mar 8, 2013.

  1. Phoenix Rising Team

    Phoenix Rising Team

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    View the Post on the Blog

    View the Post on the Blog
    atoska, Blue and merylg like this.
  2. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I've been waiting for this one. Can't wait to read it :D
    snowathlete likes this.
  3. GcMAF Australia

    GcMAF Australia Senior Member

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    Hi
    good timing
    First International Tick Borne Diseases conference 16-17th Match in Sydney
    http://www.karlmcmanusfoundation.org.au/
    Programme
    http://karlmcmanusfoundation.org.au/files/FinalProgrammeR1.pdf
    Opened by Professor John Shine, Director of Karl McManus Foundation
    he was given a Prime Minster Scientist of the Year
    Saturday closed by Professor Chris Baggoley, Australian Government Chief Medical Officer.
    Big hitters on the local science scene!!!!!!
    Some body who shall remain nameless is presenting on GcMAF and Lyme (early days yet) and Inflammation Therapy.
    371 Australians diagnosed, about 30 new dx each month.
    Tremendous work by Lyme people to get this going.
    snowathlete and merylg like this.
  4. GcMAF Australia

    GcMAF Australia Senior Member

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    World Wide Lyme protests , over 20 countries!!
    culminating in May
    considerable lobbying in Australia
    from grass roots to the top!!!
    http://worldwide-lyme-protest.org.uk/
    http://lymeevents.webs.com/apps/blog/show/19835611-worldwide-lyme-disease-awareness-protest
    http://worldwidelymediseaseprotestus.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/press-release-for-worldwide-lyme.html
    http://worldwidelymeprotestaustralia.weebly.com/
    snowathlete and merylg like this.
  5. GcMAF Australia

    GcMAF Australia Senior Member

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    Actually I reckon Icce man looks like that tick!!!
    snowathlete and merylg like this.
  6. svetoslav80

    svetoslav80 Senior Member

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    ELISA also looks for IgM and IgG. The difference between the two tests is that ELISA is very sensitive (picks up almost all cases) but not very specific (may show lyme even in some people who don't have the bacteria - a false positive result). And Western blot is so specific that it would almost never falsely show lyme.
    snowathlete likes this.
  7. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    About to get all those "controversial" tests!

    Sushi
  8. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    Which ones are you getting Sushi?
  9. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    Thanks. I wasn't very clear but you're right of course both are looking for IgM and/or IgG, though not all of the tests look for both so it's worth checking exactly what your tests look for.
    svetoslav80 likes this.
  10. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    The iceman made me laugh.. thanks Joel. Good article. The lab which tests for lyme here in Australia, say they are discovering new kinds of lyme here. (I cant think right now where the link is but will put it up when I find it again).

    just a couple of corrections to your article.... as far as those things telling apart Lyme from ME/CFS.. 2 of the 3 of those are in fact also found in ME/CFS.
    Dr Cheney on his DVDs talks about ME people often loosing their fingerprints due to skin atropies. And Bells Palsy is a well known complication of Mono (EBV) http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000591.htm and as we know.. EBV is very common with ME. Ive had Bells Palsy with my ME (I had severe mono when a teen.. thou in the next week or two.. I will be being tested for lyme).
    GcMAF Australia likes this.
  11. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    I think he looks young for his age though.
    Interestingly, one of the papers talks about little medicinal tattoos on his body around the points where he had lyme arthritis. So he had treatment, though probably not that successful.
    GcMAF Australia likes this.
  12. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Probably PCR, sequencing if that is positive and the Infectolabs LLT.

    Sushi
    Ema likes this.
  13. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    Thanks tania,
    I'd be interested to hear more about that lab in Australia. It sounds quite promising because Lyme seems to be under reported everywhere but particularly in Australia where it sounds especially likley that there is novel species of Borrelia at work.

    That is interesting to hear about skin atropies in ME/CFS, thanks for pointing that out. I had not heard that before. My guess is that its fairly uncommon in ME/CFS - do you know if thats right or not?

    Good point about Bell's and EBV. It just goes to show how similar the symptoms of ME/CFS can be to Lyme disease and really only strengthens the view that we should be tested as best as we can, for Borrelia. I'm pleased to hear you're testing for it - which tests are you having done?
  14. Simon

    Simon

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    Thanks for the comprehensive article, snowathlete. I've only glanced at it so far, but appreciated the introduction to Lyme disease and Borrelia- I was always pretty hazy about this. And I had no idea how common the infection was in the US - 3rd most common illness in some states is amazing.
    snowathlete likes this.
  15. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Most LLMDs consider ELISA testing for Lyme to be worthless. I would be very skeptical of a doctor who stopped investigations in the face of clinical symptoms indicative of Lyme after only ELISA testing.

    I found this recap by Thomas Grier listing the issues with ELISA testing here:

    http://owndoc.com/pdf/when-accurate-lyme-tests.pdf

     The ELISA test is useless within the first four weeks of a tick bite.
     The ELISA may not detect late infection because the bacteria can find immune privileged sites in
    which to hide.
     The ELISA test is not a standardized test. The design of the test can vary greatly from lab to lab.
     The choice of antigens used in the test is derived from a laboratory strain B-31 instead of the naturally occurring wild strains. The B-31 strain is proving to be highly variable and changing. Using a high passage lab strain may be cheap and convenient, but not an accurate representation of the various strains of Borrelia found in nature.
     The accuracy of the test varies even on identical samples, meaning that even the labs themselves introduce a variable of inaccuracy by poor procedure, interpretation, or quality control.

    Ema
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  16. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    While ELISA tests do rarely present false positives, false negatives are much more common.

    Ema
  17. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    Thanks, Simon. Yes, staggering how common it is in some parts and because of the under reporting, the real number is likely quite a bit higher. In the UK it varies a bit too, Wiltshire where I now live is a hot spot for it, for instance.
  18. svetoslav80

    svetoslav80 Senior Member

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    How do you know? Every site I visit says that ELISA test for lyme has high sensitivity and low specificity. Also, I just found out there's a relatively new ELISA test - C6 peptide ELISA, which, when performed on cerebrospinal fluid, has 95 % sensitivity (only 5% false negatives) and 85-95% specificity (5-15% false positives).
  19. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I read a study that put the false positive rate at about 2%. Unfortunately, I cannot find the link on a quick search so I will have to dig further.

    The false negative being high is due to the reasons Grier listed in my post above. That is why LLMDs very rarely use them in practice.

    I don't see a test using cerebrospinal fluid becoming a useful screening tool for the masses unfortunately.

    I still think an antibiotic challenge may be at least as useful as testing for Lyme given all the pitfalls that still exist. That is why even the CDC says not to rely on testing and that it must be a clinical diagnosis.

    Ema
  20. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Is there any consensus on whether chronic Lyme is Th1 or Th2 dominant? Buhner and others think it's Th1, but I spoke to someone here who is knowledgeable about this area and seemed to think many were Th2 dominant. Dr. Cheney and other CFS experts also think that many people with CFS (not Lyme specifically) are also Th2 dominant.

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