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Borderline personality disorder - amygdala issues?

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by bluebell, Jun 13, 2010.

  1. bluebell

    bluebell Guest

    I have been wondering about this lately. All my life I have suffered from a plaguing condition known as my mother, who shows all the signs of BPD. From what I've read, it's a condition that doesn't respond well to psychiatric drugs and seems to have a lot to do with the amygdala. Gerwyn's post on XMRV and the amygdala got me thinking about whether my mom (who has fibro) might have so little control over her emotions due to XMRV. I would like to see WPI (or someone) look into this. Does anyone else have family members with this problem?
  2. wciarci

    wciarci Wenderella

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    Not borderline but lots of bipolar in my family. Harvard and Japanese researchers have proven a link between bipolar and mitochondrial dysfunction. So yes, with mito dysfunction, and gut implances, not to mention B12, D and glutathione deficiencies, many behavior problems could be attributed.

    Wendy
  3. wciarci

    wciarci Wenderella

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    I want to add that the first few years that I became sick I started to behave strangely, very quick to anger, temper tantrums, blow out fights with my husband. Threw his clothes out the door once and told him to pack up and leave. This was more like my 'other relatives'. I am usually very calm, very even tempered and more likely to talk about problems than to blow up from them. With B12 injections, methylation support and mitochrondrial support, I am much better but still have to watch my moods and reactions. Of course being sick and feeling exhausted and miserable all the time, probably doesn't help my moods either. If you google supplements mitochrondria and bipolar you will get a list that helps, including CoQ10, acetyl L carnitine and some others that I can't remember. It is very difficult to tell the difference, sometimes, between borderline personality and bipolar.

    I hope this helps bluebell.

    Wendy
  4. bluebell

    bluebell Guest

    Thanks guys. I have become a lot more like my mom since becoming ill and it pains me, since I have small children. Of course I am always exhausted and have a 4 year old who bites me or one of his siblings every 5 minutes, so that could be part of it;-).

    Meditation is honestly my only hope for making their childhoods less stressful and confusing than mine was. I hope there is a connection, because it would be so nice to see this problem disappear from the world.

    I really appreciate your taking the time to write. The biter has huge problems, including hypotonia - so a mito connection is a definite possibility. I don't have the energy to fight with the doctors any more about him. He is bright and personable, so apparently his issues are either imagined or due to my subpar parenting:p
  5. caledonia

    caledonia

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    There are a few bipolars in my family, but they're on my dad's side, while the CFS is on my mom's side. So either no connection, or I have a double whammy.

    In general, I've noticed there seems to be a huge epidemic of bipolar depression out there. I bet I know at least 12-15 people who are bipolar. What's up with that?
  6. lululowry

    lululowry Senior Member

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    Bluebell,
    Thanks for raising this issue. I don't understand the amygdala issue yet so any illumnation there would be appreciated. However, my daughter, who has crimson crescents, has been diagnosed with both bipolar and borderline and both conditions are quite severe for her.:(
    Lulu
  7. bluebell

    bluebell Guest

    Lulu, so sorry to hear about your daughter's issues. But of course you can have the same hope I do:). I have often wondered if what my son has (sensory processing/integration disorder) is related to BPD. One seems to be an inability to regulate sensory stimulus (stimuli?), the other an inability to regulate emotional and social stimuli. I notice boys being diagnosed with SPD, girls with BPD. Just a pet theory of mine. I can't help you with the brain science stuff; I would like to learn more too.
  8. Tammie

    Tammie Senior Member

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    I suspect that the increase in people with bipolar has to do with the incease in use of psych meds, particulalry antidepressants.....they have been shown to cause bipolar (in fact, there was a debate about including a new diagnosis of bipolar III in the next DSM - currenlty there are bipolar and bipolar II diagnoses - the bipolar III diagnosis was to be bipolar cases solely casued by psych meds)
  9. wciarci

    wciarci Wenderella

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    Lulu and bluebell, so sorry to hear about your children, it must be so hard, especially with our illness. I hope that something turns around for them.

    In my family's case, mother's side, her father's side there were and are alot of bipolars but none took psyche meds before being diagnosed. They tend to be diagnosed in middle age, where it gets worse or at least out of hand. My grandfather was BP, two of his daughters, numerous cousins from his brothers, two of my sisters, two nieces and 3 out of 4 of my Aunt's children. Very tragic. I have finally convinced my sister to try some supplements. She is mostly depressed but I have read that SAMe and the B vitamins can trigger a manic episode. At least a manic episode may get her out of the house and doing things. I didn't see her for four years, because she wouldn't leave the house or allow any visitors. Very sad. I wonder if the Yasko protocol could help your children or my sister?

    Wendy
  10. Tammie

    Tammie Senior Member

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    bipolar has always had a strong genetic component, so that can absolutely explain why there are a bunch of cases in a single family line; however, the seeming increase in cases could still easily be due to psych meds, esp since, as I said, they were seriously considering adding another classification in the DSM of bipolar III (that classification was to be entirely made of people who got bipolar from taking psych meds)
  11. Athene

    Athene Never give up

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    Biting

    Hi Bluebell,

    Your son who bites caught my attention as I have a similar problem.

    My little boy has taken to biting and hitting a lot lately. He also cries far more than a 4 year old normally would. I have spoken to wise friends and searched my heart a lot and I am convinced that this massive anger is a result of the fact that I am ill myself and he can easily see it. He feels scared and let down and confused and deep down knows that having a Mum who is too ill to do what most Mums do just isn't fair. He is getting a raw deal and he's cross about it.

    I have a friend with cancer who had the exact same experience with her daughter (who bit every single guest at my wedding by crawling under the tables and gnawing on their knees and still cannot live it down 5 years later!)

    As far as borderline personality goes, I am so sorry to hear your Mother had that. Growing up with that must have been indescribably tough. My ex husband had Borderline personality and from what I was told, it is a behavioural disorder caused by the way people are brought up rather than a chemical imbalance type disorder like bipolar. In his case that was clearly true. His family had no concept of boundaries of any kind whatsoever and they always maintained at least three conflicting versions of reality at any moment. Just what I was told, but I'm no expert.
  12. hensue

    hensue Senior Member

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    I am not sure what a bpd is but I have a son who is 29 with such severe social phobia he cannot work. His body is overactive to every stimuli yet he has no motivation or energy. We have not had any help on the meds none of them seem to help.

    He is withdrawing off effexor and zoloft as we speak. It is such a horrible illness his mind has him locked up in the basically.

    This has to be genetics, chemical imbalance and how he was brought up. I did not know he so sensitive what a good mother huh! He really does suffer but I see the chronic fatigue and a lot of things in him that we have.

    I have no problem socially if something becomes of the xmrv I want him tested right away since I am positive.
  13. Athene

    Athene Never give up

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    Hensue,

    This isn't borderline personality that your son has, but it does sound a lot like sensory processing disorder to me. There is a thread about it, called "clothing sensitivity" - a few pages into the thread there are some helpful links.

    Borderline personality is a disorder where people swing between telling you they hate you and you are awful, and then cryying that they cannot live without you, please don't leave me all alone sob cry wail. They they go back to being Demon person. One day they love milk and the next day they hate it and throw it in your face because you dared to offer it to them, etc. Hollywood invented something called "multiple personality disorder," which is a sensationalised/fictionlised version of borderline personality, but which does give a vague concept of what it is about. You never know how someone will be from one day to the next. Their moral values, standards, aims etc change dramatically yet they totally deny any inconsistency because with Borderlines, everything is YOUR fault.
  14. hensue

    hensue Senior Member

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    I think I was married to him!! lol

    I know it is serious just had to throw that in.


    that is wicked!
  15. Tammie

    Tammie Senior Member

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    Actually Multiple Personality Disorder is not a version of borderline personality disorder....it's a type of dissociative disorder, and though Hollywood may have sensationalized it and gone overboard with it, it is absolutely NOT a fictional disorder, though it has been renamed to Dissociative Identity Disorder

    also, there is a bit more to Borderline P Dis than what you described, but your description is definitely a classic exp of what someone with BPD can act like
  16. Martlet

    Martlet Senior Member

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    Bluebell,

    I worked in a voluntary capacity with people of various mental illnesses, including BPD. There are some hallmarks of BPD.

    - Black and white thinking. They view people as all good or all bad, instead of understanding that we all have good traits and bad ones. So let's say you bought your mother some flowers. You might become the best daughter in the entire world but if you annoyed her in some way, you would suddenly become the worst person imaginable.

    - Fear of abandonment. They are terrified of being left by those they love, yet at the same time will press every button to make you leave. And if you do try to leave, they beg you to stay.

    - Disconnect with real events. They will often invent some disaster that has befallen them in order to gain sympathy - blaming others. At first, they know that what they are saying is untrue, but as they repeat the story, it becomes absolute truth to them, no matter how much evidence you show to the contrary.

    Borderlines are some of the most difficult people to live with and their families suffer immensely, even to the point of questioning their own sanity, but at the same time, the BPD people suffer unspeakably inside, feeling very worthless. I sincerely hope your mother doesn't have this disorder but if she has, you have my sympathy.

    It used to be believed that BPD was always caused by extreme childhood trauma but now, thinking is that it has a genetic component and that from an early age you can recognise the borderline tendency because these infants don't develop the ability to self-sooth.

    @ Athene - If you had to live with a borderline husband, you did well to get away from it. They can make it very hard to let go, can't they?
  17. glenp

    glenp "and this too shall pass"

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    Martlett

    your quote

    It used to be believed that BPD was always caused by extreme childhood trauma but now, thinking is that it has a genetic component and that from an early age you can recognise the borderline tendency because these infants don't develop the ability to self-sooth.

    Not specific to BPD but I discussed much of such illnesses with the psychiatrist that I saw - he believed much of it to be genetic. He was a good one - the one who recognized my CFS

    glen
  18. Athene

    Athene Never give up

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    Hi Martlett,
    That is a very good and objective description of borderline personality. Mine was a very personal account based on my ex!
    To be honest he was so unbearable and vile that it was not hard to let go of him, just hard to physically get rid of him. I sometimes fantasised about slipping a few peanuts into his curry to bump him off by anaphylactic shock!! But eventually he went, thank goodness.

    It's interesting that it seems to be genetic, as his mother and sister were just the same. I assumed it was their mutual looney group dynamic that they had created together. The psych he/we saw was very clear it was due to upbringing, but then it was a few years back so maybe they have moved on? She was also firm that multiple personality disorder doesn't exist, as I told her I thought he had that and she denied it firmly. I tried looking on the web and found varying opinions. presumably an area that needs more research???
  19. Martlet

    Martlet Senior Member

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    Athene

    I am so sorry you had to go through that and I really congratulate you on being able to get out of that situation.

    His psychiatrist was right up to a point. Some borderlines have been horribly abused, just as some with other disorders have suffered abuse. But as they have looked at it over the years, they have begun to see patterns emerging very early on in a child's development, specifically that inability to self-sooth. They think - and remember that this is psychology/psychiatry, which is hardly an exact science - that the person is born with a particular genetic predisposition - that is exacerbated by their environment. This does not mean that all borderlines were abused. They can interpret normality as abuse, given the right circumstances.

    That multiple personality issue is controversial but I've seen people that I am 100% sure have completely split - compartmentalised aspects of themselves until those aspects are no longer communicating effectively with the other aspects. Borderlines don't split. They "fracture" so that they can give the appearance of MPD, but the different parts of "self" or "mind" are still communicating with one another. I know it all sounds so weird, but think of it as things like love, lust, anger, gentleness, greed, generosity etc. Most of us are made up of all those parts plus some. Those parts work together, our "better angels," for want of some sort of term, governing the darkest side of our psyche. In splitting, these aspects become more and more disconnected. In fracturing, they are still connected but not always working properly.

    And after writing a couple of paragraphs, I still have to say that all of this is still conjecture because - psychiatry is so imperfect, as many with ME/CFS have learned to their dismay.

    But the good news is that most borderlines begin to improve by the time they are forty or so. They learn self-soothing techniques and so are far less dependent on others to provide their sense of worth.
  20. Tammie

    Tammie Senior Member

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    one quick note re Multiple Personality Disorder (now called Dissociative Identity Disorder or DID).....there have been documented observations of objective physiological differences between the various personalities within people suffering from DID....things that cannot be faked

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