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Boosting testosterone for ME symptom alleviation?

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by redo, Jan 8, 2012.

  1. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    If T-shots stop working, you should have your E2(estrogen) levels checked as it could be converting to this and making one feel worse, also dosing of many docs is one large injection every 2-3 weeks. The top male hormone docs now recommend lower doses once a week eg 100mg and some even doing 50mg twice a week, this helps avoid fluctuation in testosterone levels which can cause issue as well as increasing estrogen conversion. When getting E2 tested it should be within the lower third of the range, if its in the higher end of the range but supposedly normal, this can also still cause major issues. So its a balancing act between total and free testosterone levels as well as estrogen, most docs dont look at all 3 but just one, the total testosterone levels.

    cheers!!!
  2. Parismountain

    Parismountain Senior Member

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    Heapsreal if it were converting to E2 what is the strategy then? I did have monthly shots but then my wife is good at giving shots and we on our own broke the monthly shot into 4 pieces, one per week but my T was not climbing. I was around 220 or so. So we started with the Testim gel daily and that never got me to 300 so the doc had me double the gel with morning and evening application on different skin. When we checked the hemoglobin hematorcrit levels I was in deep trouble and we stopped everything for 3 months and tested again and my red blood cells went back to normal range. I was also in that period while doubling the testim showing strain on my kidneys. Plus I feel I was not absorbing any T, all the change I felt on my first T shot way back had ended. It's like my body figured a way to reject the T.

    Should i self report to a endocrinologist or try to work again through my CFS doc do you think? CFS doc said try HCG as a possibility. Any thoughts appreciated
  3. john66

    john66 Senior Member

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    I have tried test injections and while it helped energy and weight issues, I had a very short fuse and lots of anxiety. I personally think that whatever is causing CFS is causing test problems due to low energy. My latest test was 198, which is low. Asked for clomid, and the doc had no idea why, next time, I'll ask for HCG. When I took HCG in the past, I lost weight and did feel healthier in general. I have found lots of useful info on test from William Wong Phd. He also makes the anti estrogen supplement that I take.
  4. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Personally i dont think any specialist doctors are helpful with cfs, best to find a good GP who understands cfs and hormone replacement therapy.
    As for E2, lower doses more regularly would help, 100mg once a week or 50mg twice a week, after 6 weeks of this then retest testosterone and E2, if E2 is still high then u can use an aromatise inhibitor called arimidex. It can be expensive and is normally used for breast cancer but also used in male HRT, and doses for men are alot lower. Starting dose is like .5mg/half a tablet twice a week, then same again retest hormones etc. lowering estrogen can also help increase your free testosterone levels as well.

    The best place to find info on male hormone replacement therapy is on bodybuilding sites, generally its under an antiaging section, these guys are switched on and where i have picked up alot of info, this type of treatment is very different to what bodybuilders do so dont be concerned about the bodybuilding label on these sites.

    Heres some good sites, read the stickies for info, blogs are interesting but can get abit lost.
    http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_on...ance_bodybuilding_trt?pageNo=1&s=forumsNavTop
    http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?2-All-Things-Male

    cheers!!!

    ALso other hormones cam shut off when on testosterone, some use very low doses of HCG to sort this but many benefit from using dhea and pregnenolone as well, these are also used for adrenal fatigue as well.
  5. baccarat

    baccarat Senior Member

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    1. Zinc inhibits aromatization of androgens into estradiol.
    2. Avoid estrogenic foods and drinks


    Factors That Affect Testosterone Levels in Men

    DHEA: Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is a hormone produced from cholesterol that then follows one of two pathways, both involving two-step enzymatic conversions, to yield either estrogens or testosterone. Thus, levels of DHEA can have a role in determining levels of estrogen and testosterone, though DHEA alone is seldom enough to sufficiently restore testosterone levels in aging men.
    Aromatase: One of the most important factors that affect testosterone levels and the ratio between testosterone and estrogen is the aromatase enzyme. Aromatase converts testosterone to estrogen, further depleting free testosterone levels and increasing estrogen levels.

    Obesity: Obesity and associated hyperinsulinemia suppress the action of luteinizing hormone (LH) in the testis, which can significantly reduce circulating testosterone levels (Mah and Wittert 2010), even in men under the age of 40 (Goncharov et al 2009). In addition, increased belly fat mass has been correlated with increased aromatase levels (Kalyani and Dobs 2007).

    The vicious circle of low testosterone and obesity has been described as the hypogonadal/obesity cycle. In this cycle a low testosterone level results in increased abdominal fat, which in turn leads to increased aromatase activity. This enhances the conversion of testosterone to estrogens, which further reduces testosterone and increases the tendency toward abdominal fat (Cohen 1999, Tishova and Kalinchenko 2009).

    Sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG): Most testosterone circulating in the bloodstream is bound to either sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) (60%) or albumin (38%). Only a small fraction (2%) is unbound, or free. (Morales et al 2010).

    Testosterone binds more tightly to SHBG than to albumin (Henry et al 2002). Consequently, only albumin-bound testosterone and free testosterone constitute the bioavailable forms of testosterone, which are accessible to target tissues and carry out the actions of the essential hormone (Morales et al 2010). Thus the bioavailability of testosterone is influenced by the level of SHBG.

    Aging men experience both an increase in aromatase activity and an elevation in SHBG production. The net result is an increase in the ratio of estrogen to testosterone and a decrease in total and free testosterone levels (Lapauw et al 2008). As will be discussed below, it is crucial that this skewed ratio be balanced.

    Liver Function: The liver is responsible for removing excess estrogen and SHBG, and any decrease in liver function could exacerbate hormonal imbalances and compromise healthy testosterone levels. Thus it is important that aging men also strive for optimal liver function.

    http://www.lef.org/protocols/male_reproductive/male_hormone_restoration_01.htm
    MishMash likes this.
  6. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Spot on.
    the herb nettle root is commonly used to improve SHBG as well.
  7. Parismountain

    Parismountain Senior Member

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    Wow I checked into the price of Arimidex, ouch. I just found out there is a generic I can get for $9 on my insurance drug plan. No restrictions for male use only so I guess I should follow the advice here, make an appointment, check the three blood things mentioned, free, t, and the estrogen and try and then monitor. I'll report back if any of this comes to fruition.
  8. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    There are some online pharmacies that are priced ok, 4rx sold 30 for $79 but 30 tabs lasts a while. Recently i have had problems ordering things from 4rx, think it maybe a supplier problem, havent lost any money. other site which is priced alot better is alldaychemist recommended by someone else on this board, i havent ordered from them yet. Otherwise some places charge like $500 plus for this med which is rediculous. Aromasin is another similar med but i dont have any personal experience with this, progesterone for men in low doses is suppose to have anti-estrogen effects and can help with adrenal fatigue as the body can make cortisol, dhea and testosterone from it, also can help improve sleep, but have heard synthetic progesterone is no good and need to use bio-identical creams to get good effects.

    cheers!!
  9. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Tundras of Europa
  10. pine108kell

    pine108kell Senior Member

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    Thanks for the comments and this link:
    http://www.lef.org/protocols/male_re...oration_01.htm

    A little surprised my doc just tested total T and DHEA. I may try the gel for a month and am supposed to be retested again next month and I will mention these other tests and the problem of estrogen.
  11. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Im a girl but girls have testosterone too.. mine is so low its almost nil so my gyno gave me a testosterone implant. (Its important for us too to keep our bones strong).

    In my case it didnt help my energy levels at all (thou did make my sex drive go crazy which then lead to frustration). It also made me go aggressive, I couldnt handle it. I ended up begging for the gyno to take the implant out but she wouldnt (as apparently not that easy to remove).

    Nearly all the ME women Ive heard which have been given testosterone due to low levels.. most of us get side effects and find it dont help at all.
  12. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    What does PEM stand for? Is that inability to absorb protein (like another word for low stomach acid?)
  13. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    Oh. I had low T but I took DHEA and raised it. It did cause acne for 3 days and yes sex drive like crazy whenever the T level rises...so if I miss a dose it goes down and up on next dose and then I get sex crazy. But once that is straightened out, I love raised T. I think it helps my CBS. Well anyway my body is addicted to it...I feel I cannot survive/function w/o it. idk if it will cause breast cancer. I wish I had only 1 pill to take to make me methylate correctly because I think proper methylation is the number 1 things I can do to prevent breast cancer. That and take I3C/DIM, selenium, and D. But dont count on it...I am no expert on that. It does affect the CBS gene. Looks like if you have high hmocysteine (like me) it can help. Maybe not if your homocysteine is low.
  14. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    idk how effective these are as I am not male but the term to look up is "aromatase inhibitors" -- of which offhand I can say zinc is one.
  15. baccarat

    baccarat Senior Member

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    Yes, I think I can say that boosting testosterone helps.
    Over the past few weeks I experienced an explosion in testosterone (no need for blood tests...) to an extent I started to get worried there may be something wrong with me, as it never happened to me. It got kind out of control...I have had better stamina and recovery after exercise and an enhanced feeling of well being in general.
    I had been taking a lot of stuff recently and wasn;t sure whether something was affecting that. So I stopped all supplements and then reintroduced one at the time. I found that the Resveratrol I was taking was the key to that. I did a bit of research because I had never heard of Resveratrol boosting testosterone but indeed it does that, and quite a lot to me.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resveratrol
    Effect on testosterone levels
    A Korean study showed that trans-resveratrol supplementation increased testosterone levels in mice in vivo,[94] which has led to its marketing as a bodybuilding supplement. A Spanish study has also shown the antioxidant to increase sperm production in rats.[95]

    Resveratrol also significantly increases natural testosterone production from being both a selective estrogen receptor modulator[95][149] and an aromatase inhibitor.[150][151]
  16. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    One way to possibly boost your testosterone levels without requiring a prescription of a testosterone patch or cream is by taking the popular body-building herb Tribulus terrestris. This herb has been shown to significantly raise testosterone level — well in rats, anyway. Ref: 1

    I have experimented with doses of around 500 mg of Tribulus terrestris, and it does noticeably increase drive and energy for around 6 to 8 hours after taking it.
  17. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    If your well below the normal range I would try HCG. It is easy to get and the injection is subQ and not a muscle injection. Try it for about 6 to 8 weeks and get retested, but make sure you get your E2 tested as well with one of the "sensitive" test from either Labcorp or Quest if your in the US.
  18. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    clomid can also help with stimulating low testosterone levels. I have seen low doses recommended that has been successful eg 12.5mg every second day. There seems to be some good options for men of late with forward thinking doctors, hard part is finding the doctor i guess.

    cheers!!!
  19. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

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    Does anyone have any positive experiences taking DIM? I've never tried it before and I just starting taking it. Seems to be quite a wide range on the suggested dosage of 2 to 4 caps once or twice daily. Anyone know if "more is better" when taking this supp? I'm only starting out with 2 caps per day.
  20. daniariete2000

    daniariete2000

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    I would like to try test gel with dim plus to boost my testosterone level thai is low
    Do you think is too much to take either ? Meybe is better test gel alone ?
    Tahnks

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