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Book published this week in UK referring to ME as psychosomatic

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by anniekim, Jun 8, 2015.

  1. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Rebel without a biscuit

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    And here we have a big problem. No matter the dysfunctional biology that makes something a physical medical problem these things will always be psychiatric for some. It defies understanding.
     
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  2. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    Sounds like a knowledgeable doctor. Might be interesting to ask do they have a conflict of interest, by being involved in a CFS service that offers CBT and/or GET
     
  3. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

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    It's intriguing that she would find such a comparison offensive whilst at the same time saying that a psychiatric diagnosis wouldn't detract from the seriousness of the illness. It sounds curiously like double standards: Yes, your illness is serious but I find it offensive that you should actually expect me to take it seriously.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
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  4. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

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    Turkeybaster sounds quite reasonable in some parts. I think the main problem is that she thinks that once she's read the Lancet, the PACE trial, the Cochrane report etc, looked up the official NHS position, she's done the necessary research, knows the latest, and is ready to have an informed opinion. Finding it hard to blame her really, at least she's made the effort to find out as much as she can.

    Doctors probably expect to be able to rely on what they find out when they've looked up the subject in what they have always believed are the most credible sources, including an extensive, peer-reviewed, published study. If they had to lift the covers on every published study they read, read reviews on the reviews, get into the politics of the whole thing, they'd never have time for much else. It wouldn't really have occured to me to look further behind the scenes until I received the education that is ME.

    Of course she's completely wrong, and if she wants to publish her opinions on an amazon review she should be ready to read the articles by Tuller, Coyne etc that she's directed to and review her opinion. But I can't help wondering if she's typical of many reasonable doctors doing their best, but being mis-informed and having to act on the basis of that because they don't have the time or can't be expected to get into a subject any deeper once they've informed themselves as well as they can from what they regard as credible sources.

    EDIT: It's what the Robert Koch Institute has just done in Germany - reviewed the "available evidence" without probing any deeper, and produced a report full of BPS bollocks that will be another obstacle for patients to deal with for many years to come.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
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  5. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

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    I wrote the above without reading the original review by Turkeybaster:

    I have gone off her considerably.
     
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  6. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
  7. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

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  8. skipskip30

    skipskip30 Senior Member

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    Given some of the awful unreasonable parts I fail to see how you can praise her. Shes put effort into reading other peoples biased opinions and spent no time critically examining the evidence to come up with her own.

    *Edit* I see you have come to your senses in a later post.
     
  9. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

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    Something's overwhelming me with sadness...
     
  10. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    Wonderful. Now she should take her own medicine, do lot's of CBT and live to 120 years without any sign of physical disease.

    What's more likely is that there are some people who are sick, some people who are depressed and sometimes people are depressed and sick.

    For some reason some believe that depressed people can never be physically sick. Impossible.

    Translation: I misdiagnose people all day long and I have no idea what problems many of my patients have.

    Translation: We do it because it is easier and we have not learned anything else. Also our ego does not permit us to admit that we don't know everything.

    Translation: It upsets me that people don't accept our wonderful ideas blindly. How dare they?

    .
    Translation: I have no real arguments to support my position.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
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  11. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

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    This from the German Science Journalists' Association, in a critical article about the proposed setting up of a SMC in Germany (in German I'm afraid):

    http://www.wpk.org/quarterly/einzelartikel/das-britische-science-media-centre-(smc)-und-was-wir-davon-lernen-koennen.html

    The interesting bit is here:

    Apart from the Wellcome Trust, in whose offices the SMC resides and who finance 30% of the SMC's budget, no sponsor may contribute more than 5% of the annual budget. These financial limits are to guarantee the operative independence of/from individual sponsors. On its website the SMC-UK lists 97 sponsors (a link which unfortunatey no longer leads to the list of sponsors).

    On the SMC's website:

    http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/about-us/

    it says

    and at the bottom:

    How very cosy it must be at 215 Euston Road. Pity none of the links to "funding" on the SMC website work.
     
  12. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    How exactly the f!&* does she know?

    Jeez, that is the most egregious bullshit. It's precisely as scientific as "I sense your aura has been disrupted"
     
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  13. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    ..........apart from the Wellcome Trust

    http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/contact-us/
    http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/About-us/Contact-us/index.htm

    They operate out of the Wellcome trust. Same building.

    So this is the PR division of the Wellcome trust?

    http://www.meassociation.org.uk/201...re-publish-expert-reaction-to-the-pace-study/

    https://jcoynester.wordpress.com/20...res-letter-writing-campaign-to-uk-parliament/

    http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/cfsme-the-next-step-in-the-controversy-2/

    Nothing to do with science. Pure Propaganda.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
  14. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    They want people to conflate independence with objectivity. Fox News is independent in governance and funding, too. Objective? Not so much.
     
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  15. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    Basically it's another arm of the Elite making untermensch so the ubermensch can feel superior
    and of course the result of that is they can abuse and eventually murder the sub-humans because well, they don't feel pain, they don't love they don't think like the uber-humans do and this makes it much easier to murder them and steal their stuff.

    And it's also a way to keep bullshit artists in money and power

    And for Corporations to use these scumbags to spew any lies they chose, such as covering up the fact organophosphates are about the most harmful chemicals known to man and trigger illnesses like M.E. (IMHO M.E> itself, per se is infection triggered, but almost damn same thing is caused by organophosphates as it's all some similar autoimmune issue. See Gulf War Syndrome, farmers and passers-by poisoned by pesticides, aircrew and passengers poisoned by organophosphate in aircraft lubricants etc)

    The Science Media Centre is only a few steps off the Nazi propaganda crap that made Jews, Gypsies etc to be sub-human by "Science!"
    same with the Soviet Union in it's dark days etc.

    please note, when I use "Science!" in that kind of way, it's in a theatrical, ludicrous way because it's the way these wahoos and their overlords use it, you know?
    If you've played "Fallout New Vegas", you get the most WONDERFUL way of it being expounded by the mad robobrain Scientists in "Old World Blues", as often, fiction does the best damn way of showing such stuff up :p

    When I think of the "psychs" this is what I think of them at times...lol ;)


     
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  16. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    @SilverbladeTE — I think you might enjoy this 2014 blog post by a British GP who blogs as Dr No. I think it's safe to say he's not a fan of behaviourists or their cure-all CBT:

    http://www.badmed.net/bad-medicine-blog/2014/07/all-watched-over-behaviourists-cognitive-grace.html

     
  17. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Yeah ;)
    It's an old standard trick used by religious fakes for centuries

    "Life's crap but feel good about it! Who cares if the king has all that wealth, be happy!
    That'll be 2 silver coins for your enlightenment!"
     
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  18. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    If CBT made people delusionally happy it would at least be good for something. I doubt it does even this.

    In my opinion It makes people think they are happy or improved or report they are happy while objectively very little has changed. This change doesn't last however and soon they will find themselves as bad as ever blaming themselves for their situation..

    Personally I would prefer religion over CBT. The former is at least not so incredibly superficial.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
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  19. moosie

    moosie

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    I still get a list of sponsors - unless I misunderstand what you mean which is more than likely :) I enclose a pdf in case it's of interest. Not quite complete as you will see - computer not working properly.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

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    Thanks @moosie, you understood correctly, that's exactly what I couldn't see. I wonder why Queen Mary's stopped contributing?
     
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