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Bone marrow, interferon inducers, immunovir, cycloferon.

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by heapsreal, Mar 7, 2014.

  1. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Couldnt think of a good title so just throw up the main issue i wanted to discuss.

    Immune suppression can come from bone marrow suppression as bone marrow is used to make granulocytes and from there other immune cells such as neutrophils, lymphocytes, white blood cells etc etc .

    Testing i had awhile back when i was in the griffith/bond uni cfs nk function study, showed i had low granulocytes, which at the time i did consider a reason for my episodes of mild neutropenia i was getting at the time, pre valcyte.

    Chronic infections can lower neutrophils as well as other immune cells which probably puts a strain on the supply of bone marrow for granulocytes. I think when us me/cfsers show signs of a part of our immune system functioning low, its a sign our immune system is slowly burning out, maybe an issue with bone marrow production. This i think is more likely to occur the longer one has me/cfs. The early stages many of these immune cells will be pumping out high numbers indicating active infections going on.

    Cautionary note on antivirals, they can suppress bone marrow production and thus some immune cells especially the stronger drugs like valcyte. So constant monitoring is required. These viruses i think still need to be treated but be on the look out as something like neutropenia can leave u open for bacterial infections, similar in away that people on chemo are at a higher risk of infections.

    So how can we treat these things. taking certain things into consideration such as antivirals which could be stopped if viral load has been lowered. But one just has neutropenia, maybe an undiagnosed bacterial infection or lyme or dam sinusitis, or maybe low lymphocytes.

    Most of us have heard of immunovir and probably a few less of cycloferon but they are both in a group of drugs called interferon inducers. So they stimulate the body to make more interferon which has antiviral properties itself but also increases nk function which is something most of us know. But what i didnt realise until recently is that they stimulate bone marrow production. So theoretically if one has some type of low immune function, say neutropenia as this is common in us, then using interferon inducers can help correct this. Also i read somewhere today on someone having low total lymphocytes, probably a tiring immune system, increasing bone barrow production and granulocytosis could probably help.

    The traditional treatment for neutropenia is injections of Granulocyte colony-stimulating factor (G-CSF or GCSF) it quite expensive and one has to fit into a strict criteria. Many of us wont have this available to us.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3622854 - immunovir


    Another interferon inducer, Amixin- Stimulates bone marrow stem cells in a dose-dependent increases antibody production, reduces the degree of immunosuppression, restores the ratio of T-suppressors and T-helper cells. Effective with the various viral infections (including those caused by viruses, other pathogens of acute respiratory viral infections, hepatitis, herpes).
    http://drrmed.blogspot.com.au/2010/09/amixin.html

    Cycloferon -
    The medicine induces high titers of interferon in organs and tissues, containing lymphoid elements
    (spleen, liver, and lungs), activates the stem cells of a bone marrow by stimulating granulocytes production.

    http://www.polysan-ru.com/resources/files/INSTRUCTION CYCL injections 2009.pdf

    Theres alot more information and studies to be found researching. Its a pitty that the majority of the work was done by soviet type countries and not spread around researchers from other countries.

    Also there are other options out there. We need to find real treatments to strengthen our immune system. On their on or in some type of combination with anti infection agents.

    I feel this is important also for those who do antivirals treatments with good success but have troubles sustaining this improvement. Ampligen would probably be the answer, but it also is an interferon inducer and probably alot stronger then immunovir etc I think its an avenue that needs looking deeper into, maybe by big pharma?? But hey, make it affordable and indicated for ME so we dont have to dick around with off label prescribing.

    cheers!!!
     
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  2. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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  3. end

    end Senior Member

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    Would GcMAF cover the bases you mention?? I am looking for some thing more applicable to Enterovirus's though... from what I'm currently reading/thinking GcMAF is Amazing Stuff!!!!
     
  4. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    @heapsreal, Here's what's confusing me...if we already have high viral titers, wouldn't that be an indication that our immune system isn't suppressed? At least not in the *normal* way?

    I'm not sure I want any more EBV/CMV/HHV6 antibodies...especially since the ones I have don't seem to be working all that well, even though they are high!
     
  5. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I havent tried gcmaf and from what i have heard from other aussies its hard to get in the country, especially compared to these interferon inducers. Some of these interferon inducers can increase macrophages and i have read where some are more specific to enteroviruses, amixin i think? I will try and post another link with more info.
     
  6. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I dont think they increase the virus but increase the amount of antibodies to the viruses, but that is just one mechanism of how they work?? Im still reading up alot on it but i guess maybe it works together with are parts of the immune system that are stimulated such as interferon , neutrophils and nk function??
     
  7. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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  8. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I came across a very long 171 page article on interferon inducer amixin/tilorone and ic poly ( i think is ampligen).
    I just browsed over it but will need to read it several more times i think to get an understanding of it.
    From what i have gathered these substances seem more applicable as preventative treatments for viral infections or given early in the infection, but maybe long term use is needed for chronic infections. I guess in our case, after being treated with antivirals, these interferon inducers could be used post av's to prevent reactivation??

    Happy if someone else can read through this link and pick it apart.
    http://content.lib.utah.edu/utils/getfile/collection/etd1/id/518/filename/250.pdf
     
  9. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    It says 183 pages on my phone. I was totally going to do it if it was 171, but 183 is out of the question. Lol.

    I'll try to look at it tomorrow...:)
     
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  10. Lillybelle

    Lillybelle

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    @heapsreal interesting you mentioning Russian research. I'm currently seeing a Naturopath in Melbourne, Tim Altman http://www.timaltman.com.au/
    (ex Olympic athlete and cfs sufferer) who worked with a Russian Biochemist to cure his own Chronic Fatigue. This biochemist has created a range of natural Adaptegen products made from cold pressed Siberian Pine/Fir Trees. These trees have survived for over 50million years in temperatures from -40 degcelsius to above 40 degrees celsius.

    More information here: http://www.pineneedleresearch.com/chronic-fatigue-syndrome/

    In addition Pine Needle Products have been clinically tested in Russia.however Australian Regulations do not allow them to publish this research or make any claims.

    Any way, I have seen around a 25% improvement in my symptoms since using these and doing "Breathing Retraining"with Tim. I am of course over the moon.I have tried many things over the last two years and none have given me the quality of life improvement Ive experienced over the past month.

    I have also thrown away my corticosteroid inhaler as preventative for asthma which I have used for over 5 years and am only using ventolin very occassionally. This is off the back of having had a chest infection so severe in January/Feb I had to go to hospital.

    For anyone in Melbourne, a trip to see Tim is well worth the investment. Especially as he is a living case study. I'm inspired and I'm excited!!!!
     
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  11. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    @Lillybelle I think Dr Cheney use to recommend a pine extract of some sort to increase immune function. I guess a lot comes down to standardized products.

    from my readings it seems that in the 1950/60s western countries were more into vaccines and trying to prevent viral infections where the eastern block countries were trying to treat current viral infections as they happened. I guess when synthetic interferons were invented and a small number of antivirals for different herpes infections probably greatly slowed down further research into interferon induces and other immune type stimulants.
     
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  12. end

    end Senior Member

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    Thanks Heapsreal

    Ragosin and Amixin are both INF inducers in the intestines to the same rate in FIG. 4.

    Although Ragosin is only listed in Table 3 as being effective for Enteroviral infections

    Despite Amixin having a much broader range of action and being able to induce INF in the intestines as previously mentioned, it has not been listed as an anti-enteroviral substance in Table 3!

    I am a little confused, might be missing something??


    Although what's most pertinent, what is the availability of these compounds to the general public/us
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2014
  13. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    There seems to be a long list of interferon inducers studied in the soviet union but i dont think all are available and or stopped making some altogether. Some are available online, but i dont think there would be many doctors in australia that would know much about them. Immunovir thats commonly known in the cfs/me world is an interferon inducer as is ampligen, big price differences??

    The common ones i have seen online are cycloferon which is commonly used for herpes infections such as cmv etc, arbidol which seems to be used more for influenza and then immunofan which seems to be used for a variety of infectious and immune issues. I think if something increases interferon then generally it should increase nk function and have a systemic effect also, i think that some may have a localised effect???

    From what i have read many seem to be used more as a preventative way but i think if used in combination with specific treatments like antivirals and antibiotics as well as used afterwards to maintain immune function then they could be an important tool.

    http://www.polysan-ru.com/resources/files/INSTRUCTION-for-Cycloferon-tablets.pdf
    http://brandmedicines.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=746 immunovir/isoprinosine
    http://medik24.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=19&limit=100

    I have a few more sources/links, some things are cheaper on other sites and vice versa. medik24 have the best priced cyclo injections and 50 pack cyclo pills, but look at their immune system medications in general u will see there is a variety of different things used in these countries that we dont use or have. obviously research it more, there is alot of research on these treatments just not in western countries??

    It would be interesting if dr chia looked into these types of treatments more for some of his patients.
     
  14. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    @end u able to chat online
     
  15. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    @end did you try to treat the enterovirus at all?
     
  16. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    During the cold months I buy beef bone marrow and make a broth out of it. The yellow fat in the marrow tastes delicious and a little goes a long way. It is confirmed that it can help boost your immunity as well as being a great treat.
    Marrow bones are not popular where I am so they are quite cheap, still if you want them organic and grass fed they can cost up to usd$5/lb (450gm) here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2014
    end likes this.
  17. end

    end Senior Member

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    Will email you heapsreal.

    Yes. Immunovir Quercetine & IMI GSH has been very helpfull.
     

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