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Bodybuilding type stuff

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by cman89, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. cman89

    cman89 Senior Member

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    I know that many of you cannot exercise at all, much less do weights or anything like that. On the other hand, I see some real value with supplement regimens taken from the bodybuilding/sports nutrition world. Even a lot of the B-12 stuff seems to be inspired by what some bodybuilding regimens include. Radical steroids aside, and focusing on energy/muscle growth, are there bodybuilding inspired supplements that you have had success with? Or have heard of others being successful with? I feel this area has not been explored much with CFS, but could certainly be of use.
     
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  2. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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  3. kristysmiles

    kristysmiles

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    Bodybuilding seems like the only workouts that don't completely zap my energy, and takes a lot of effort to build up to a full workout. Cardio is a total energy killer and I would fall asleep or lose focus in a yoga-type class. I tried numerous bodybuilding supplements, but have most recently had the most success with Advocare products. I started taking Biocharge, and Argenine Extreme (both caffeine-free energy supplements) and they have helped tremendously in the last week or so of using them. Caffeinated energy doesn't last as long, and there are withdrawal effects. Since both products are consumed with liquid it seems to have a quick onset without an 'energy high'. They both have amino acids and lots of vitamins and minerals. I think the purity of the products and the minerals are what makes it more effective. It provides more of a baseline increase in energy. I've tried numerous other procucts as well so if you're considering something I'll gladly give you feedback and let you know if I've tried it. I could also try and give you some guidance on the workouts I've tried, etc.
     
  4. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Most body building supplements are crap and not regulated by the FDA, I used to be a physique athlete and was going to compete right around the last two years before getting ill. That being said there are also a lot of high quality products out there too and it can certainly help, You just have to be sure to navigate around the really junky stuff.

    Most those kind of nutritional supplements are hyper dosed for work outs. If you wanted things that have a similar compound without being used for intense exercise there are other options too. Amino acids can be a huge benefit but be careful of arginine if you have a high viral load. Pure encapsulations makes a quality amino acid blend. Protein powders are not as ideal as whole food sources, often some are loaded with heavy metals above the RDV. This is why you have to find a trusted and reputable brand. Watch for synthetic vitamins like cyano b12, folic acid, and too much b6 perodoxine, a lot of those supplements contain mega doses of those vitamins which will hamper methylation. Too much perodoxine can also be toxic for you. A lot of them contain artificial preservatives and MSG like ingredients for flavoring. Just make sure you read labels carefully.

    I used to get all my supplements from http://www.t-nation.com/, Its an extremely trusty and dependable company but again unless you are actively working out then it would be a waste of income for most of the products. Some others could help out even if you aren't hitting the weights at least three days a week though. God I really miss the gym :(
     
  5. GhostGum

    GhostGum Senior Member

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    Nearly all those types of branded pre/post workout stacks/powders are just overhyped overpriced garbage, with ingredients you can find individually at much cheaper prices; I guess maybe if you find one with the right supplement stack it could be convenient. From the ops post though appears he is talking about individual substances?

    Some have been discussed many times here, creatine would be one of the main ones since it can assist with muscle soreness/recovery and even potentially help cognitive function, combined with d-ribose it seems to have helped some people very well with muscle soreness. Seems kind of ironic I am typing this right now because I have not been using ribose much in the past 6 months, took a few teaspoons of it today before my shift with a heap of electrolytes and was noticeably more comfortable in the limbs and easier getting around.

    Protein powders it seems hard to go past something like hemp seed powder or other plant based alternatives, over dairy derivatives.

    I am not sure but I think many of the body building type supplements have been looked at, individually, they just add to the plethora of endless supplement options available, none ever seemingly being beneficial for even a deccent percentage of people with ME/CFS.

    Personally I wrote about taking a BBing type approach years ago on several ME/CFS forums, since I saw some sense in taking an anabolic approach to the problem, since catabolism is inevitable given how inactive we can become. I still believe it to some extent, moderately high protein diet (now with a ton more greens/micros though), protein shakes in some form, amino acid mix, creatine, electrolytes.

    Of course it can be helpful, but for a lot will just do next to nothing for serious underlying issues, I think it has helped me get past a pretty bad state of catabolism but I still have the same problems today, which is looks like could be explained largely by methylation.
     
  6. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    I think that it could be the other way around. B12 was used on ME patients in the 80's. The body building part of my health food store contains the things that I have seen spoken about on the ME and CFS groups since the internet was invented.
     
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  7. cman89

    cman89 Senior Member

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    i have plenty of experience with workouts. Used to be quite the meathead, and i can still lift, but I never used supplements beyond caffeine, protein shakes, and creatine, since I was pretty muscular just naturally. Now, all that is different. Really having a hard time regaining or for that matter building muscle, even with high caloric intake
     
  8. cman89

    cman89 Senior Member

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    . I never competed in the past, but was a pretty muscular guy, now, even though I can still lift at
    reduced capacity w/o pain or PEM, the physiological adaptations are just not coming. Again, I know it can be somewhat of a selfish thing here, but for those who never lifted or really exercised even when healthy, it can be hard to understand how fulfilling it is
     
  9. cman89

    cman89 Senior Member

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    Ok, I was going off something that Fredd wrote about incorporating bodybuilding inspired supplements into a Methylation protocol
     
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  10. cman89

    cman89 Senior Member

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    Would you say that your anabolic efforts have merely arrested muscle loss, or have actually allowed you to gain some muscle and perhaps some greater functioning? I know that muscle w/o the neuro activation is worthless, but...
     
  11. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    @cman89 This I got from a video on recomendations for CFS mito repair, I appologized cannot remember the name but one of this year presentations. Will dig link.


    ALC = 1000mg (I cannot do more than 500 or won't sleep) also I used mine with 400mg ALA.
    NAC = 1200 (I have not used this)
    ALA = 400mg (I buy mine with the ALC)

    this is the brand I use.
    http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/na...ry-supplement-capsules/ID=prod3430760-product

    I also use D-ribose powder and under the tongue b12 hydroxy.
     
  12. Doublepush

    Doublepush

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    I have been able to do some strength (1-5 repetitions with long pauses) training for the past few months. I don't know if this is by help of LDN, methylation supplements, D-ribose or some amino acids that I have been taking. I also have gained muscle mass.

    What I can not do is aerobic training. If I try it for 15 minutes I get PEM for a few days and my muscles get weak for a longer period. Intolerance for aerobic training has not improved at all. Mainly just gone worse. And I used to run marathons and not do much strength training.
     
  13. *GG*

    *GG* Senior Member

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    Hmm, my Dr has me on Cardio B (I take only 1 per day)and I also take LDN. Big meat eater here, low carb.

    http://www.amazon.com/Ortho-Molecular-Products-Cardio-Capsules/dp/B000UBIEPC

    GG
     
  14. Dufresne

    Dufresne almost there...

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    I used bodybuilding supplements back in the day. I remember going from a 1-2 rep, 225 lbs bench press to a set of 10-12 with one week of creatine. Remarkable stuff for weight lifters, sprinters and such, but it did nothing to improve my health after really falling ill with this disease. Nor did any of the other stuff one would take for performance enhancement, then or now.

    Speaking of supplements we used to use years ago: are you guys old enough to have tried the original Hydroxycut, or an ephedrine stack? That stuff was crazy.

    It's interesting that some can weight lift but not do any cardio, while others like myself can walk several miles but not do a single set of pushups against the wall, or even calf raises to muscle failure. For me, PEM is all about the intensity of exertion, and it's neurological. The only thing to raise or relieve my PEM threshold is a buzz. Endorphins.

    High protein and low carb has been the right diet for me. It starves yeast and bacteria. I don't think one can get on top of dysbiosis without taking this step. It also seems to help with tic-bourne infections. Furthermore I know this diet is responsible for me not wasting away completely. Sure I've lost a good ten pounds of muscle over the last eight years, but I still look like someone in shape. It could be worse.

    Nice to reminisce. I'll get back there.
     
  15. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Similar to my experience training wise, keep the reps very low and sets low, everything low. SOmetimes its just 1 rep squats for several sets with lots of rest in between and no more than half a dozen exercises at best and probably no more than twice a week.
     
  16. hmnr asg

    hmnr asg

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    I was addicted to weight training before my crash happened.
    I used to take a ton of supplements. In fact I was able to work out for a few years after my crash because i just couldnt give it up. It got to a point where my weight training session would zap me for the whole day but i would still do it.
    Now I have a rough job and I cant afford to do that. I have not done any kind of physical activity in about a year and it kills to look in the mirror lol :(
    Anyhoo im getting side tracked (blame it on CFS). When i was doing weight training after the crash i found that pre-workout supplements gave me a crazy boost. Of course they will make you crash too but a lot of them contain the ingredients that we now take as CFS patients.
    My stack before workout was: one scoop whey protein (cant do it anymore due to lactose intolerance increasing) d-ribose 5 mg, L-carnitine 5 mg, glutamine 5 mg and a scoop of whatever pre-workout supplement was available (such as jack3d).
    It was so long ago i cant remember all the details.
    God what i wouldnt give to go back to the gym and do some serious deadlifts :(
    That is probably the thing i miss the most about my pre-cfs life, working out.

    H
     
  17. GhostGum

    GhostGum Senior Member

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    I would say it combined with a random assortment of supplements has certainly helped over the years, I ate absolutely terribly my first few years of illness (my lack of diet awareness back then boggles my mind) and gained about 10kg. My catabolism seemed quite serious for a long time due to being house bound and unable to be physically active, no doubt adding the right nutrients with an anabolic approach made a difference.

    That said there is no obvious answers, I am only just getting jaw issues/TMJ corrected now which turned out to be a major factor, and as I said methylation supplements the last 4-5 months has been significant, B12 is like washing my brain with windex sometimes. All trial and error, find what works and roll with it, feed your cells as best you can, most of which starts and ends with diet; if your lucky underlying issues are minor/moderate and you find good improvement over time.
     
  18. cman89

    cman89 Senior Member

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    My hopes indeed. My diet ranges from excellent to bad. Strangely, I find less muscle wasting on "crap" diet and more on good diet, but maybe I just need to let some junk clear out and allow a reset. A lot of it stems too from a recovery from what was in effect malnutrition induced weight loss five years ago. I ate so much coming out of that, and I am vigilant about keeping weight up, so to me, calories are more important than anything. And actually, my crap diet is not that bad in American terms, but for someone with affected health, I could do better.
     
  19. cman89

    cman89 Senior Member

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    I would think that is a common sentiment. A lot of folk dont get it, but the iron has a strange allure to it. Mesmerizing, it can be
     
    hmnr asg likes this.
  20. cman89

    cman89 Senior Member

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    I never did the hyroxy. I have never weighed more than 170 lbs in my life, and at five eleven, thats not that big. So, no, cutting on purpose has never been an issue with me, and I always just used basic caffeine for energy. It actually really odd, as the caffeine has less effect on me now than it did pre illness. As I have written before, I have very odd symptoms, not really even CFS per criteria, but I feel treating as if it were can certainly help.
     

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