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Hunting down the cause of ME/CFS & other challenging disorders - Lipkin in London
In a talk to patients in London on 3rd September, Dr. W. Ian Lipkin described the extraordinary lengths he and his team are prepared to go to in order to track down the source of an illness, with examples ranging from autism to the strange case of Kawasaki disease.
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BMJ Rapid Response: Is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome a meme? 18 June 2014

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Firestormm, Jun 18, 2014.

  1. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    So in this case, CFS is really just a sub-meme of the BPS model parent meme. In other words, the article is a facet of the BPS model meme. Like Sasha says, this is the great irony here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
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  2. daisybell

    daisybell Senior Member

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    A meme for the not very bright, easily influenced, and frankly lazy both in the health profession and the general public who want to be able to ignore a difficult problem... If we won't go away, then just pretend we don't exist.
     
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  3. hope

    hope

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  4. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    Maybe , hopefully, someday, this mind set will be an Urban Legend.:)

    ETA Just saw this was written in 2004. Makes me a bit more hopeful things have changed albeit not enough.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
  5. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Sorry to disappoint you, but it's a new response to a 2004 article.

    It took them a decade to come up with a 'rapid response' of this quality.
     
    Nielk, merylg, Orla and 10 others like this.
  6. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    No. The original editorial from Professor Peter White 'What causes CFS?' was written in 2004. The above is a response to it, posted online TODAY - 18 June 2014. Unfortunately :( :bang-head:
     
  7. cigana

    cigana Senior Member

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    omg...
     
  8. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    I don't have the time myself but describing the attitude that "the condition is treatable with exercise" as a meme could make an interesting comparison to what they have written. And has the benefit that they would likely be annoyed by it. Don't have time to do one myself at the moment.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
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  9. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Senior Member

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    I'm almost speechless. Almost.

    This does seem to be sadly typical of the mind set of some (most?) of those who work in NHS services in the UK. It accords all too well with the experience I had a few years ago at the Infectious Diseases Unit at the Edinburgh Western General (a.k.a the fatigue clinic for psychosomatic illness if they would just be more honest about it).

    Apparently, according to my consultant:
    • pacing is harmful. Yes, folks, you read that right; it wasn't a mistype.

    • 90% of the patients who attend the clinic consider themselves recoverd. Yes 90%. No, that wasn't a mistype either. But before you rush along to your G.P. to request a referral to this wonderful centre of excellence, I'm afraid to report to you that I didn't ask her for the evidence of their amazing results. I was too busy picking up the shattered pieces of my jaw off the floor at the bare-faced shame of it.
    Then again, thinking about it now, I wonder if both of those statements may not have been memes . ;)

    I note that the authors of the response letter left themselves an awful lot of wriggle room, else I might of wondered 'so how come I developed the symptoms of what was later to be recognised as M.E. if I hadn't even heard of such a condition? Was it a magic meme or some kind of stealth meme?' But oh no, the authors cleverly anticipated my point:

    So memes can account for the aetiology of CFS............ but so can anything else that expediently comes to mind and suits your own faulty belief about someone else's illness.
     
  10. N.A.Wright

    N.A.Wright Guest

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    I would treat this 'response' with deep caution - firstly David Newton has been involved with biomedical research into CFS - http://www.meassociation.org.uk/201...ional-journal-of-cardiology-10-november-2011/ and it's pretty unlikely that someone in an NHS CFS service would write in those terms, whatever they believed about patients or the illness. Anthony Denis COLLINGS appears on the GMC list as a specialist in General and Geriatric Medicine - and has an entry in Debrets (Linkedin in for posh people !) http://www.debretts.com/people-of-today/profile/11412/Anthony-Denis-COLLINGS. which gives him working at Southnd Hospital, however he is no longer on that hospital's consultant list http://www.southend.nhs.uk/about-us/meet-the-team/consultant-list/ . As according to the Debret's entry Collings would now be 68 he may well have retired. My guess is that neither Newton or Collings has anything to do with the response to the BMJ.
     
  11. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    I'm 99.9% sure that's a different David Newton. That's David Newton works in Scotland with ME Research UK and isn't a physiotherapist: http://www.meresearch.org.uk/about-us/meet-the-team/ .

    There's a David Newton who works in the CFS service in Essex http://www.therapy-directory.org.uk/therapists/david-newton as has been pointed out.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
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  12. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Further, someone could write a reply article. Describe BPS as a meme, or something. What makes ME or CFS(CCC) different is hard objective evidence. That is lacking for every single psychosomatic diagnosis.
     
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  13. Isabelle

    Isabelle

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    The BPS school seems to ignore all the studies on ME/CFS that contradict their own theories. Flexibility of thought is important in research – and in life really. You’ve got to follow the evidence.

    I’ve got to go – my meme is acting up.
     
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  14. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    ...and developed a nasty case of Relevance Deprivation Syndrome, for which, paradoxically, the cure is to ignore the patient's demands to be taken seriously.

    (You see what I did there? :whistle: )
     
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  15. N.A.Wright

    N.A.Wright Guest

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    You are right - my apologies to the two David Newtons for confusing them. I still think the BMJ RR is of dubious authorship, why would a Consultant in geriatrics and a Physiotherapist collaborate on a bizarre interpretaion of meme theory in response to a ten year old article ? If the intent were to have been less malicious I think authorship would have been L E Phant or something similar; if it really is genuine I think I'd be concerned about the health of the author(s).
     
  16. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    Last item I could find about Dr Collings and the Essex CFS/ME Clinic on Google.
     
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  17. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    So glad their approach is working out for them:

    .
     
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  18. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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  19. N.A.Wright

    N.A.Wright Guest

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    Less rent, less business rates, less cleaning and hygene services, less medical insurance, less standard business overheads - I'd say even on a full patient list which is almost impossible to achieve - top end school teacher salary would be equivalent rather than Banker. NHS physios earn no where near that. Any reason that this particualar physiotherapist should be singled out, or are all the UK's physios somehow objectionable ?
     
    justy likes this.
  20. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    Only that he's the chap in who apparently wrote the article and is 'treating' with CBT and whilst I don't deny some skill involved - I was surprised at the charge. Other than that no, not really. I am not familiar with the costings of NHS contractors. Whereas - as a former banker - I felt I was able to make a somewhat self-deriding comment.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2014
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