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BMJ b/s painting PWME as threatening psych patients

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Tammie, Jun 23, 2011.

  1. In Vitro Infidelium

    In Vitro Infidelium Guest

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    How information is presented affects whether it has the capacity to 'misinform'. How Ean Proctor and his family view Wessely is a matter for them - I'd hardly expect them to view Wessely with much kindness, but if we are concerned to provide accurate and relevant criticism then we have to be diligent in our presentation. Ean Proctor's circumstance was prescribed entirely by his residence in the Isle of Man, a self governing Crown Dependency which in the late 1980s was still so backward in its attitudes to human rights that it still included the birching of children as a criminal punishment and imprisonment for homosexuality. The health and social services systems of the Isle of Man which heaped abuse on Ean Procter were without exterior oversight and the abuse can be consider likely endemic with all 'non compliant' children experiencing comparable abuses of their human rights. As a doctor, Wessely's actions in relation to Ean Proctor, are open to damning criticism, but those criticisms are not related to the actual abuse visited upon Ean Proctor - the responsibility for that lays both with the health professionals and Social Workers who had a day to day duty of care for Ean Proctor, and with the politicians and administrators who oversaw the consistently barbaric treatment of children who were unfortunate enough to encounter the legal, care and health services of the Isle of Man of 25 years ago.

    Wessely may defend his actions in relation to Ean Proctor in terms that he (Wessely) couldn't know what the circumstances of Ean Proctor's enforcd hospitalisation would involve - such a defence is mealy mouthed at best, no one in Britain in the 1970s and 1980s could have been unaware of either the general poverty of hospital care available for psychiatricly ill teenagers anywhere in the UK, of the inadequacy of health povision in the Isle of Man, and of the prevailing attitudes to children in the Isle of Man. Wessely seems to have been hell bent on 'proving a point' without any concern for what the reality would mean for Ean Proctor. Excusing Wessely from direct responsibility for Ean Proctor's abusive treatment, while at the same time acknowledging Wesseley's culpability in opening the door to that abusive treatment, may seem legalisitic but it is important to make that distinction if we are to understand how that particular circumstance evolved. Ultimately the Isle of Man authorities could have chosen to ignore Wessely and follow the advice of the neurologist, the fact that Wessley's advice was preferred is a reflection of the prevailing prejudices of those authorities, rather than of Wessley's culpability.

    Whether a near quarter of century later, the circumstances of Ean Proctor's mistreatment has anything substantive to add to an effective critique of the psychologisation of M.E/CFS, is in my view, doubtful; certainly for an audience such as the BMJ, if doubt is to be raised over the validity of the Wessley approach, the debate needs to be presented in contemporary, not historical terms. My guess is that most medics of all disciplines would be likely to forgive Wessely any failings from his early career, on grounds of "there but for the grace of [insert supernatural entity of choice] go I". Tactically, the first thing we need to do is stop giving those we want to criticise, 'free' return shots in the form of crazed diatribes and personal threats which simply allow us to be 'bagged up' in the very categorisations we are trying to escape.

    IVI
     
  2. floydguy

    floydguy Senior Member

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    There will always be cranks in any large group. If we truly didn't have any, then people like ERV would make them up. In fact, I wouldn't put it past her for fabricating half the crap she posts.
     
  3. Mark

    Mark Acting CEO

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    That diatribe is so completely unlike anything I've ever seen from the ME/CFS online community, that I think it's highly unlikely there is any genuine connection to the ME/CFS community there, let alone a real connection to the WPI. It's interesting that the respondents on ERV's blog accept the ridiculous idea that this rant really did come from the WPI so uncritically - so much for scepticism!

    Even if it did come from an ME/CFS patient, there is absolutely nothing you or I or anybody else in the community can do to prevent these sort of outbursts. We can bemoan them, but it's a big old world and there are bound to be all sorts of people out there with all kinds of views and attitudes - teenage wind-up merchants included. So tactically, it does not make any sense at all to link here to such a post, thereby boost its rankings, and draw attention to it; nor does it do any good to bemoan that posts like this exist. The only line that makes sense to me is to emphasise that these posts are not typical or characteristic of the patient community, to cite the abundant evidence that the vast majority of supporters of the WPI and advocates for continued XMRV research are reasonable and intelligent people, and perhaps also to note that ERV is merely a potty-mouthed graduate student with a 'shock jock' style pseudosceptic blog, who made up her opinionated and offensive mind about XMRV before any research had even begun.

    Tactically, we should not accept the premise in attack pieces like this, the one in the BMJ, and Horton's disgraceful interview about the opposition to the PACE trial. This is a persistent theme in the press strategy: to constantly draw attention to what even the BMJ describe as a very small minority of patients and to misrepresent the valid concerns of an entire community of millions of sick patients as if they were characterised by wild and unreasoned anger. Would that a similar amount of ink were spilt on considering the very real and substantial suffering and grievances of those millions of sick people!

    The reality is that ME/CFS patients in general show extraordinary grace, patience, and restraint in the face of such extreme and persistent provocation. The real story is the twisted way in which we are so often misrepresented, and the questions to be asked are: who has such an interest in representing us like that, what do they hope to achieve by it, and why do they keep doing it?
     
  4. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    ummm . I think the writer of that needs to be sent a list of all the studies his name has been on in the past 10 years. If he's not interested in studying ME/CFS still, how does his name keep ending up on studies. Its all bullshit.

    Im shocked but at all not surprised that they are making themselves out to be the victims now.

    That article could put some researchers off of researching ME.
     
  5. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch dxrevisionwatch.com

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    [Content deleted by Suzy Chapman who has now left the forum.]
     
  6. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    It would be funny if it was some elaborate joke... seems a bit unlikely though. To me, it sounded like a kid/teens writing. Who knows?

    I was going to say: "I really don't think some random postings on a blog would make people think less of all CFS patients"... but it sounded less convincing once I'd written it out.
     
  7. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Tania - to take up your point on the Hawkes article putting some researchers off ME - it does seem like a deliberate at scaremongering - Dangers of research into CFS......threats from activists......Prof Wessely and all those who approach CFS/ME from a psychiatric perspective are targets of critics. Well of course maybe he missed his point. As an organic disease to imply DANGER in all areas of research is just thoroughly irresponsible.
     
  8. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    There were Weapons of Mass Destruction aimed at us from Iraq! yes indeed! for those on High said so! Anyone who thought otherwise was weak, a coward, letting a madman imperil us! These experts KNOW! They have white coats and letters after their name!
    And some who tried to show what was really going on "died from bizarre gardening accidents" ;)

    Tonkin Gulf Incident (start of US-Vietnam War) oh and what REALLy happened there we learned decades later?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident

    Nazi Germany using a "fall guy" (who got murdered) to claim a radio station in Germany had been attacked by Poles, as an excuse ot invade Poland.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident

    What am I on about?
    FALSE FLAG OPERATIONS (and also just plain old manipulation, but a bit more smoothly done than Machiavelli ever imagined possible)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag

    And in larger scope, Public Relations, bullshit, drawing people's attention away from "the little man behind the curtain (Wizard of Oz), Psychological Warfare and the manipulation of the public
    ya all should read up on the stuff both East and West got up to in the Cold War to brainwash their public into supporting their crazy crap, including making the public accept both sides waving 20,000+ thermonuclear city-busting weapons at each other, like drunken men waggling their pensis at each other while holding shotguns to each others' heads and wearing suicide bombs, seeing who'd blink first.
    Who was involved in making the public swallow that act of species-ending insanity? Oh, psychiatrists....isn't that suprising?!
    So, who's good at manipulating things in the media, eh?
    Who seems ot get all the BBC coverage, eh?

    very long, complex way of saying: as before, these ass clowns are annoyed their precious little kingdoms are threatened, the do not like anyone stepping into their bailiwicks. "Only THEY must control ME/CFS! it is for the children!!! and thus, anyone who is against them, is a monster!!"
    And so, they have their PR drive/stunt, this is them fighting back.
    All they are interested in is control, *NOT* the suffering of millions of people.

    Ah, what a load of horseh*t these assclowns spread! And at least real manure is good for the roses!
    *makes a very rude gesture in the air* :p
     
  9. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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    I know the Gibson report was deeply flawed, but what it did do, was say that Wessely et al. had potentially serious conflicts of interest (being also connected to long-term disability insurance industry, particularly UNUM provident), which ought to have a full investigation as soon as possible. This is independent verification of Prof. Hooper's assertion.

    The report also repeated the 1996 Lancet editorial complaint that biomedical evidence was being ignored. If I remember correctly, the report expressed amazement that Lancet had changed its position since 1996, being that 1996 was the more sensible position.

    The report did not consider the case closed that there was an ME/CFS which was clearly biomedical, but it called for equal funding for biomedical research, which would be at least progress towards the right direction.
     
  10. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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    http://meagenda.wordpress.com/2008/04/22/professor-simon-wessely-retired-tired-or-hired/

    That's actually true, but SW is on the side of the powerful special interests, not on the side of the abused and intimidated.

    The ME/CFS "lobbies" are not powerful, and it's quite laughable to assert or imply that they are! Dr. Enlander had it right when he told Lewellyn King that the anti-CFS lobby is the lobby with power and voice!
    (2nd segment here)

    See also Ken Friedman's testimony about the abuse and intimidation biomedical researchers are affronted with--and this is top-down persecution; much more serious than the bottom-up intimidation Wessely claims
     
  11. markmc20001

    markmc20001 Guest

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    That's exactly right. Thanks for being a voice of reason.
     
  12. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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    Ok. I only read the summary on the 25% ME group page, which did provide some helpful things. It looks like from what you're saying, there's more unhelpful stuff, than helpful stuff. Deeply disappointing.

    When are we ever going to get an official fair inquiry on both sides of the Atlantic and Down Under?
     
  13. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch dxrevisionwatch.com

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    [Content deleted by Suzy Chapman who has now left the forum.]
     
  14. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Very interesting Post 49 Willow - the Lancet changing positions after 1996. No doubt in Prof Hooper's/Margaret Williams records I did hear of some unpleasantness directed so the psyche lobby are very capable of vitriol themselves at what they perceive as any criticism. But "changing position" - why so - internal or external pressure, vested interest, clubbing etc. and was this the death knell of biomedical research outside psychiatry - the answer has to be yes I think.
     
  15. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch dxrevisionwatch.com

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    [Content deleted by Suzy Chapman who has now left the forum.]
     
  16. charityfundraiser

    charityfundraiser Senior Member

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    The ISP you use to surf the Web is completely different from registering domain names of Web sites.

     
  17. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    As for why people with M.E. are spitting angry mad?
    Hell I once was known for having the patience of a rock, but even I have limits and 16 years of sickenss with incompetant, bigotted bumpkin doctors threatening my life with their idoocy and screw ups is MORE than enough to make even me lose my cool :p

    As old Will' Shakespeare wrote:
    In other words, if you treat innocent people so wickedly, and worse, in such a hypocritical fashion (which really gets up folks' noses), it's no bloody wonder if they hate yer damn guts.
    And my idea of revenge is the "firing squad" of a thousand printers typing out the recindment of a great many medical licences, and full page public apologie sin national newspapers, and the sound of much MUCH crow being eaten...ah, that'd be music to my ears! :p
     
  18. justinreilly

    justinreilly Stop the IoM & P2P! Adopt CCC!

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    One lie that caught my eye in the BMJ entry on "CFS": "CFS" can be unpleasant, but "is not dangerous" to one's health. Tell that to all those who have died from ME.

    consumerreports.org uses the BMJ as it's health info site. A bit ironic for an org that is supposed to be an unbiased advocate for consumers.
     
  19. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I wish the WPI could take up legal action on that someone trying to impersonate them.

    I think things like this will keep happening too the trouble makers know they cant do things like this and be getting away with it.
     
  20. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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    Well said; thank you!
     

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