The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Blood Sugar Frustration - Ideas?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Isaiah 58:11, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. Isaiah 58:11

    Isaiah 58:11

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    I brought my postprandial glucose down nearly 30 points taking Vital Nutrients inositol, Now ALCAR, and Now silymarin. I had tried Swanson inositol a year or two before, by itself, and it made no difference.

    I used up what I had of the inositol and and ALCAR and ordered Protocol for Life Balance inositol and Doctor's Best ALCAR. I have been feeling rather poorly and, without a diet change, have been gaining weight. I checked my glucose - 111 again. I am also currently on antibiotics for a Staph infection (again).

    Is the problem the antibiotics? The infection? A difference in quality of inositol and/or ALCAR? Or is everything in this disease an unreliable crapshoot and the supplements never helped in the first place? I am not sure if my severity is affecting insulin resistance or if insulin resistance is affecting severity. Or maybe it is something else entirely... :ill:

    This is so frustrating; do you have any idea of what could be going on?
     
  2. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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  3. Isaiah 58:11

    Isaiah 58:11

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    @mariovitali I do really appreciate your response, but, at the moment, I need a "For Dummies" version if I am to comprehend anything.

    I do know that my naturopath put my on inositol to help with suspected insulin resistance because my mitochondria cannot handle Metformin.

    I do wish I could understand the underlying cause as my diet, diaried for a number of doctors, is "perfect." The supplements had seemed to correct the underlying issue.
     
  4. AndyPandy

    AndyPandy Making the most of it

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    Hi @Isaiah 58:11

    I don't know anything about the substances you have listed but can share my experiences as a long term skinny type 2 diabetic.

    I am currently on a low carb diet. I eat protein with carbs. I try to use low GI carbs.

    I came off Metformin with my specialist's agreement as it was causing gut problems and possibly muscle problems.

    I can't exercise so I have to rely on diet alone.

    Counting carbs (measuring carb foods) and frequent testing before and after meals lets me know what I can take in without flicking my BGLs up too high.

    My BGLs are always higher when I have a virus or infection. Unfortunately higher BGLs make it harder for me to fight viruses and infections and make it more likely that I will develop them.

    I'm currently fighting my third dental/jaw infection in six months. With and without antibiotics which make me very unwell.

    I hope you can find some solutions. Can your doctor or diabetes nurse help?

    Best wishes Andy
     
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  5. AndyPandy

    AndyPandy Making the most of it

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    @Isaiah 58:11

    I've cross posted with you.

    I'm not sure what diet your doctor has approved but in my experience the diet favoured for some time for diabetics is actually quite high in carbs.

    There is an alternative medical view that some diabetics do better with low carb with energy from healthy fats and protein. The diet I am on was discussed with and approved by a dietician and an Endocrinologist. They don't have many people on low carb diets but it is working for me.

    Perhaps it is something you might like to look into and discuss with your medical team.
     
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  6. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member

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    It appears that ME/CFS may be affecting the Pancreas as well. This was first suggested by @Bdeep86 in discussions we had. I was also found to be on a pre-diabetic state which later tests confirmed it was stopped.

    Increased Glucose is something that has to be controlled as it will make things worse. Can you be more specific when you say about Metformin and Mitochondria not handling it well?

    It seems that Biotin may help combat Insulin resistance (and according to the Theory helps in many other things) :

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10416947
     
  7. Isaiah 58:11

    Isaiah 58:11

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    @AndyPandy Thank you. I am not diagnosed as diabetic, though with the ketone issue I have posted elsewhere I am wondering if maybe I should be! Unfortunately, I don't actually have a primary care doctor at the moment. I met with one and we are ok with each other, but I haven't been able to call with my last question and do the paperwork. :rolleyes: I will try to accomplish that today...

    As far as diet, I am reasonably low carb. It is the naturopaths who have examined my diet; I absolutely do not follow the food pyramid. I cannot go very low carb or I go into some sort of crisis and start burning muscle (ALCAR seems to prevent/help that). To give you a diet overview, my breakfast was leftovers: steak, sauteed Brussels sprouts, and steamed cauliflower. I had with it a piece of Ezekiel bread with a bit of almond butter and a few cups of black coffee.

    @mariovitali The Metformin dropped me to wheelchair-in-the-house level (which is problematic as I don't own one!). By the end of the day my problems were so severe (extreme dysphagia and others more distressing) that I thought I may have descended into ALS. Unfortunately, I am not back to my previous baseline, but the worst problems have resolved.

    I take 5mg of biotin sublingually, twice daily (away from my coffee).

    This morning my fasting level was 68 which is more in line with my normal: I had hypoglycemia all throughout my childhood and even through onset and remission. I seem to have developed these high swings with my relapse in 2011.
     
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  8. AndyPandy

    AndyPandy Making the most of it

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    @Isaiah 58:11

    The other thing that has helped me is smaller meals at frequent intervals. Avoids the spikes from larger meals but still gets enough food into me.

    Low carb isn't for everyone. I struggled with it in the early years of my illness and gave up as it made me feel terrible but I am doing better with it now.

    Best wishes Andy
     
  9. Keela Too

    Keela Too Sally Burch

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    This may not be for everyone - but this has helped me, and also my type 2 diabetic friend (who has come off ALL her insulin & other diabetic medication using this fasting technique alone).

    I have also found that fasting has helped to ease my ME symptoms! I've been told fasting can help reset the immune system. Having said that I've also been on other treatments, so perhaps fasting only works for me, because the initial treatment gave me some strength to deal with fasting... who knows!

    Anyway, I now don't eat on one day a week (ie 36 hour fast - I eat an evening meal one day, don't eat next day, then have breakfast the following morning) and I usually do a second fast during the week of either 24 hours or 36 hours.

    Dr Jason Fung:
     
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  10. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jdr/2014/685204/

    Type 2 diabetes (T2D) is characterized by a variety of metabolic impairments that are closely linked to nonenzymatic glycation reactions of proteins and peptides resulting in advanced glycation end-products (AGEs). Reactive aldehydes derived from sugars play an important role in the generation of AGEs. Using metabolite profiling to characterize human plasma from diabetic versus nondiabetic subjects we observed in a recent study that the reactive aldehyde glyoxylate was increased before high levels of plasma glucose, typical for a diabetic condition, could be measured. Following this observation, we explored the relevance of increased glyoxylate in diabetic subjects and in diabetic C57BLKS/J- mice in the pathophysiology of diabetes. A retrospective study using samples of long-term blood donors revealed that glyoxylate levels unlike glucose levels became significantly elevated up to 3 years prior to diabetes diagnosis (difference to control ). Elevated glyoxylate levels impact on newly identified mechanisms linking hyperglycemia and AGE production with diabetes-associated complications such as diabetic nephropathy. Glyoxylate in its metabolic network may serve as an early marker in diabetes diagnosis with predictive qualities for associated complications and as potential to guide the development of new antidiabetic therapies.
     
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  11. Learner1

    Learner1 Professional Patient

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    According to the Mayo website:
    My fasting glucose was around 83 two years ago. As my illness has gone on, its been creeping up to around 95-99. And I'm on a low carb/higher fat diet. My doctor suspects its the multiple infections I have that are behind this.

    Seems like going after the root cause would be the way to go. Diabetes drugs can damage mitochondria.
     
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  12. Isaiah 58:11

    Isaiah 58:11

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    This post seems highly relevant though at the moment I don't understand it. I miss my brain!

    @Keela Too I really want to do fasting, but I have some sort of metabolic crisis after 14-16 hours.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  13. Learner1

    Learner1 Professional Patient

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    Which post? I got a Century Link search page that had hits on Jay Goldstein's protocols...

    He's a psychiatrist... ?? I'm skeptical he could solve any problem I have...
     
  14. Isaiah 58:11

    Isaiah 58:11

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    Learner1 likes this.
  15. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    This will cause a physiologic insulin resistance and higher fasting BS (preferably below 100) is expected and normal.
     
  16. Isaiah 58:11

    Isaiah 58:11

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    Ok, this does not make sense to me. It seems that as the day goes on my glucose gets higher. Fasting was 68. 2 hrs after steak, vegetables, Ezekiel toast and almond butter it was 72. I ate four hours after breakfast having 2 hard boiled eggs, a salad with pine nuts and vinegar, and another slice of Ezekiel toast with almond butter. 2 hrs later glucose was 85. Four hours after lunch I ate another hard boiled egg, tuna with mayo, and 3 whole-grain crackers. My 2 hour reading is 100.

    I realize these are "normal" but I am not eating "normal" food like the rest of my family. I thought the highest glucose readings were supposed to be in the morning; why would my response to the same amount of carbohydrates be different as the day gets later?

    ETA: Yes, I know this is a sad amount of produce. I had no one to prepare food for me today.
     
  17. Learner1

    Learner1 Professional Patient

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    Normal? Is this good?

    I'm not ketogenic or ultra low carb. Just low starch Paleo...maybe 70-100g carbs daily.

    Do you have a reference?? Thanks!
     
  18. AndyPandy

    AndyPandy Making the most of it

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    @Isaiah 58:11

    My BGLs go up during the day, depending on what I eat and how active I am.

    Other people have higher levels first thing in the morning.

    If you do a search for diabetes on PR you might find a discussion of how people have different BGL patterns.
     
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  19. Keela Too

    Keela Too Sally Burch

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    Apparently this can be down to a lack of salt. I make a hot drink with salt, white pepper, and fresh thyme to help this.
     
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  20. Isaiah 58:11

    Isaiah 58:11

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    @Keela Too

    That is a very good point. I salt load regularly but I am not sure that I have ever made a point of it while fasting. I guess I have some experimenting to do!
     
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