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Blood Products Advisory Committee Meeting Announcement (BPAC) December 14-15, 2010

Discussion in 'Media, Interviews, Blogs, Talks, Events about XMRV' started by Otis, Nov 26, 2010.

  1. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Thanks! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
  2. omerbasket

    omerbasket Senior Member

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    If I understood correctly what Cort wrote in another message of his, it was 2/50 positives in the healthy cohort.

    Cort - where are you taking this data from?
  3. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Thanks omer. I missed that.

    4%... that's consistent.
  4. urbantravels

    urbantravels disjecta membra

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    Bring on Graham Simmons!

    Have I got my time change screwy, or are they running way behind?
  5. CBS

    CBS Senior Member

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    In light of the Emory macaque studies, Stoye would be foolish to assume that just because at a later stage the copy number on the blood drops that the virus wouldn't be in the lymphatic tissues? bone marrow? reproductive tissues? spinal fluid? respiratory secretions? causing serious pathology.

    They are looking in the blood because it's easy, not because it's the only place that a virus might replicate and/or might cause harm. I'm not terribly impressed with his lack of imagination/curiosity. Somebody needs to send him a link to the the Singh patent app.
  6. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Stoye is pointing out the holes - which is fine. That is how Science proceeds. That's why it works actually. Eventually everything has to get wrapped up one way or the other.

    His point about Lo/Alter just emphasizes how much researcher want to see a) an isolated virus and/or evidence that that viruses has gotten into the DNA of a human cell. A problem appears to be that they have never found pMLV's that can do that in humans.

    Basically these researchers appear to have two questions - there is the XMRV question and there is the pMLV question. We still need replication of the WPI's results and Hanson/Alter need to show that they have found an actual virus. Neither Stoye nor Coffin regard the Alter study as confirmation of the WPI;s results. Neither does the retrovirologist I recently talked to.....

    Still there are differences of opinion.......

    Have we heard anything really new yet?

    I'm taking it from ValB626 posts on the ME/CFS Forums :eek::eek:
  7. urbantravels

    urbantravels disjecta membra

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    Agree with you about Stoye, but I would also point out that the topic of this meeting *is* blood safety, which would explain a certain focus on blood.
  8. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    He is the critic - taking care of and validating XMRV requires answering the critics charges. That's part of the game of science.

    He does state that most tests wouldn't detect pMLVs - which is not what I heard. As I remember the CDC stated they thought they would have picked them up. And then gives the requirements for working at the 'limits of detection'

  9. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member

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    Good point about blood safety.

    Did anyone else catch that Stoye's answer to the question about positive controls amounted to veto power for naysayers?
  10. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Not to beat a dead horse but my guess is that this

    reflects general researcher opinion and Coffin again makes that point.

    Nancy says, yes, but in HIV we got better with time and we found more and more positives - and Stoye will have nothing to do with that. He appears to have more or less decided....He has gotten off the fence a bit more since the Workshop....

    Yes he seems to have decided...

  11. CBS

    CBS Senior Member

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    I agree that the focus of this is blood but the Emory macaque studies showed high levels in the blood that then dropped. In addition to the existence of a retrovirus, the BWG is trying to establish correlation with, and causation of, disease states - two of their stated conditions for screening the blood supply.

    And what does this mean?
    If you've eliminated the impossible (referring to what?), all you've done is eliminated the impossible. "Eliminating the impossible" tells you nothing about the possible alternative hypotheses (pretty much the bedrock of science). Believing that CFS could not have an infectious origin (the impossible?) tells you more about the "scientist" than it does the science.
  12. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Monkey study - I wonder if any of this is new??? This could signal where else XMRV is in humans. In lots of organs... The retro I talked to did note that they essentially flooded the monkeys with virus and that it might not spread as readily in nature; still if it can get going it can go far....

    Interesting that it's in the GI tract of females. It could lead to chronic immune activation..hmmmm......and marked activation of the T and NK cells.....they are responding......they note that immune activation does fall over time...No evidence of fatigue in the monkeys, though.

  13. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    It sounded like Stoye knew the BWG results and felt they backed him up. But the others must know the results too.
  14. CBS

    CBS Senior Member

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    Why do I feel like we went to visit the summer cabin in August and found the building demolished, all the surrounding trees in massive heap at the bottom of the avalanche shoot (never a good place to build your cabin!) and we're trying to find the snow?

    Just because the snow is two miles down the canyon in the lake doesn't mean that the snow wasn't the culprit (don't forget to allot some share of the blame to gravity)!
  15. Otis

    Otis SeƱor Mumbler

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    Disagree. One can't present "Summary of Current Research on MLV-related Human Retroviruses and Disease Association" and play devils's advocate at the same time. This is an effort to "balance out the story" is quite the opposite.

    And to repeat my previous request: Bring a complete theory for contamination or leave the friggin accusation and innuendo out of it.

    Elaborate please. Who is the "they" who have "never found pMLV's that can do that in humans."

    Yes it needs sequenced. The notion of seeing insertion of DNA of a human cell came from a PNAS reviewer. Who's calling for that today?
  16. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Here's where they are now:

    .
    BWG is next!!!!!!!!
  17. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    CDC actually finds XMRV - but only on days 2 and 4 (and from what samples?) and WPI is in accordance with CDC. Interesting consistency on those days. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: NCI can't find it.

    WB (?) does not work- plasma does......(?)

  18. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    But the monkeys only had XMRV for a few months before they were killed, if memory serves - I thought the working model for CFS was that you get XMRV and then viruses that you catch later cause the fatigue.
  19. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Hard to decipher - they are all looking at the same samples presumably. Now WPI finds it in 2 (of 4 PBMC's) but not plasma while CDC cannot find it
  20. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Well that's cleared things up. Now we know.

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