Julie Rehmeyer's 'Through the Shadowlands'
Writer Never Give Up talks about Julie Rehmeyer's new book "Through the Shadowlands: A Science Writer's Odyssey into an Illness Science Doesn't Understand" and shares an interview with Julie ...
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Blog Article: "Is the era of precision medicine for chronic fatigue syndrome at hand?"

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Webdog, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. Webdog

    Webdog Up to 91% remain undiagnosed

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    This is beyond my knowledge level. But perhaps someone with the right background can comment on this article about an idea for testing and treatment for ME/CFS.

     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  2. perrier

    perrier Senior Member

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    This is fascinating. Someone please forward this to Dr Ron Davis. He is sure not to leave any stone unturned.
     
    dreampop likes this.
  3. Cam Newton

    Cam Newton

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    Not to nit pick, but the fatigue I experienced with mono feels like a very different type of fatigue I feel with ME/CFS. And I only had mono two years ago, which ended up triggering the ME/CFS. So I still remember it fairly well.
     
    Snowdrop likes this.
  4. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Hibernating

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    I don't really understand what the author of the article is saying - what is the specific hypothesis?

    Simply saying that a SASP is involved is too vague - there necessarily need to be extracellular feedback loops.
     
    MEMum likes this.
  5. viggster

    viggster Senior Member

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    JaimeS, MEMum, merylg and 3 others like this.
  6. Learner1

    Learner1 Professional Patient

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  7. MEMum

    MEMum Senior Member

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    @JaimeS This sounds fascinating.

    The top reference, ie @viggster is about a guy blogging on fatigue states relating to senescent cells, ie those no longer dividing, but not dying either.
    He looks at the 74 pro-inflammatory molecules produced by senescent cells. These are known as SASP (Senescence Associated Secretory Phenotypes)

    He then compares the SASPs with the levels of 17 of the 51 cytokines correlated with severity of CFS. (PNAS)
    "So I looked up the individual elements of the SASP (which can be found in Annu Rev Pathol. 21010; 5: 99–118.) There are 74 of them. I wondered how many of the 51 cytokines measured in the PNAS paper were in the SASP. This is trickier than it sounds as many cytokines have far more than one name. The bottom line is that 20 SASPs are in the 51 cytokines measured in the paper.
    If the fatigue of CFS is due to senescent cells and the SASPs they release, then they should be over-represented in the 17 of the 51 cytokines correlating with symptom severity. Well they are; 9 out of the 17 are SASP. However although suggestive, this increase is not statistically significant (according to my consultants on Math Stack Exchange)."

    @Janet Dafoe (Rose49) as well, in case Jaime is still recovering from the amazing conference
    @Simon @Jonathan Edwards ...
     
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  8. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member

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    Obviously - give them a good talking to and explain the error of their ways - it's the only approved treatment after all.
     
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  9. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member

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    I don't quite get how cells can be senescent in ME. If it was most cells then bits of you would die and they don't. If it is blood cells most of them die after a few days anyway. And he seems to have found 9 out of 17 cytokines - which is some but you would expect some I think. It doesn't click into place for me yet!
     
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  10. MEMum

    MEMum Senior Member

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    Thanks for that info. I'm way out of my depth, but it seemed worth flagging it up to OMF/people who know more science than I do.

    Thanks for mentioning other thread @AndyPR . I would ask a moderator to merge the threads, but don't think it would be a priority at the moment! Have you ever thought of moderating Andy, you seem to have the necessary skills, technical abilities and understanding?
    Though I suspect that volunteers for moderating or being on the Board have nosedived significantly after recent events....
     
    Barry53, TiredSam and AndyPR like this.
  11. MEMum

    MEMum Senior Member

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    I interpreted this as follows:
    The PNAS study shows that out of 51 cytokines measured, 17 correlate with fatigue/disease severity in ME.
    Of these 17 cytokines, 9 are the same as pro-inflammatory molecules that are produced by senescent cells. These are called SASPs (ie Senescence Associated Secretory Phenotypes). There are 74 of these produced by senescent cells,

    It appears that his original investigations into looking at SASPs arose from the fact that cancer cells which have been "zapped" by chemotherapy go into a senescent state and cancer patients who have had chemo are generally pretty fatigued.

    I may be getting this wrong, or reading too much into it, but the overlap seems worth flagging up to the OMF team and anyone else on here who is likely to have a better grasp of the science than I do.
     
    Izola likes this.
  12. Joh

    Joh Inactivist

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    [​IMG]
     
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  13. AndyPR

    AndyPR Cookies for Tired Sam

    I've reported the two threads, asking for a merge. :)

    Thanks for the vote of confidence but as things stand currently I wouldn't even consider volunteering, sadly.
     
    Barry53, Aroa, trishrhymes and 2 others like this.
  14. Alvin2

    Alvin2 Senior Member

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    I think the senescence-ME/CFS theory is nonsense, though here is some information and a simple treatment that anyone can try, you can get bioactive quercetin (EMIQ) that has high bioavailability but if it cures your ME/CFS i will be shocked. On the other hand Quercetin is a very interesting nutrient that has many other positive effects and even helps mice suffering from radiation induced damage (not in the article but from other research i have done in the past).
    http://www.lifeextension.com/Magazine/2015/SS/Sweep-Away-Senile-Cells/Page-01
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017

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