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Biotin and Methylation

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by dmholmes, Apr 20, 2011.

  1. Rockt

    Rockt Senior Member

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    Interesting that the clonazepam made your brain fog worse Rockt. I found that when I started the Ashton taper, that the valium made my brain fog much, much worse, and that clonazepam made it easier to concentrate -- but we're all different...

    ... or is the clonazepam just ameliorating the withdrawal it has caused?

    I'm using Fred's method to try and taper off and it makes sense and seems to be going pretty smoothly after 30 or so days, (but I know, it's early).
     
  2. nanciswell

    nanciswell

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    Two weeks later and things have changed. Right after I wrote to you I also had a stall period where my fatigue, anxiety, brain fog,, ie chronic fatigue came back big time.

    First i wonder that you are taking enough biotin?? I had been taking 15 mg for 6 months.. I had noticed some improvement but until I upped the dose to 40 mg I did not see its affects on my energy. Biotin in high doses does not appear to have any bad side affects.

    Then to add onto the balance when I hit another block two weeks ago with increased fatigue I added in P5P> I immediately noticed a major improvement. I continue with this energy improvement and continue also with the higher dose of biotin. I did have problems taking the normal b6 form .. I got my regular symptoms of food intolerance.. ie manic/ depression , anxiety, sleeplessness . But with the p5p form all is going relatively smoothly.

    A warning as before to watch for oxalate dumps if you have oxalate problems. I had two episodes where the p5p made me worse with nausea. I popped a couple of 5 mg biotin pills and the nausea soon went away. SO I am sure this was from an oxalate dump. I know I have too much oxlates. I was diagnosed with cataracts last spring and I noticed the cataracts were getting worse all winter.

    Two months after starting a very low oxalate diet , plus taking the biotin for those two months plus taking some eye drops that contain carnosine specific for cataracts and my eyes have improved. After using a 2 strength of reading glasses for at least 10 years , just two weeks ago my eyes have improved and I now am using a 1 strength of eyeglasses !!!

    So with the biotin and if you take p5p start with a low dose and build up so to avoid the oxalate dumping. I also had an oxalate dump with the biotin. FOr a couple of days I thougth I had gotten sensitive to the biotin. I stopped taking it and the fatigue returned. With the p5p I have worked my way up to a dose of 50 mg two or three times a day.

    These supps .. ie b6, p5p, biotin are specific for the disease called pyroluria. I myself was tested but the result was negative . But I have heard that this test is not reliable .. Whether i have the pryoluria I do not know .. but these supps are helping with my fatigue.. Fatigue of 35 years is gone.. as long as I stick to my elimination food sensitivity diet. My need for daily doseing of methyl b12 seems pretty well gone .. My mood is sooo much better and I feel I have some hope again.. I will try and remember to post again if anything changes ..

    Another supp particular for pyroluria is manganese.. another experiment in my future..

    nanci
     
  3. Rockt

    Rockt Senior Member

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    Thanks for the info. nanci.

    I bought some biotin yesterday, 1000mcg/capsule. The manufacturer, (NOW), recommends 1 cap/day. So... 1000mcg = 1mg, so you would be looking at 40 caps/day?! Or are you taking a biotin that is much hihger dose/capsule?
     
  4. Rockt

    Rockt Senior Member

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    dmholmes, you had previously posted that you improved form biotin and then you stopped benfitting from it. How are you now and have you tired increasing the dose?
     
  5. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    I have increased the dose but never got the results I had in the first week. Has no noticeable effect now.
     
  6. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    Thanks for the follow-up nanci. I may try a higher dose soon, but I had an Organix profile done and it shows no issue with biotin. Possible due to supplementation beforehand. It did show quite a few issues, high figlu, high aHB, low cis-aconitate and isocitrate, but normal for the biotin marker B-hydroxyisovalerate.

    :David
     
  7. Rockt

    Rockt Senior Member

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    David, I'm hoping that once we are able to fully rid our bodies of the chlonazepam, that some of these supplements are able to do their job properly and enable us to feel (much!) better.
     
  8. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    You and me both buddy.
     
  9. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi David,

    I suspect that the results the first week were due to change because change is very visible. After it levels out the differences disappear. That doesn't mean it isn't doing what it needs to do, just that it has reached an equilibrium. Things can also fade when cofactors needed for it to work get used up and not replenished rapidly enough. This is they type of problem I had to work through over and over from the start with mb12. THis is why COMBINATIONS of cofactors and critical cofactors are so important, not single items. Maybe this is a clue though I don't know what cofactors it might need. Good luck.
     
  10. LaurieL

    LaurieL Senior Member

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    Those combinations of co-factors would be, thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, lipoic acid, and pantothenic acid.

    The amino acid conversion of luecine, isoluecine, and valine require those specific B vitamins in the conversion to a-keto's by way of the BCKA dehydrogenase. In the transamination and catabolism of those three amino acids, one will notice the role of adenosylcobalimin with methylmalonate, and the role of biotin with B-hydroxyisovalerate. Elevations in either methylmalonate or b-hydroxyisovalerate in the urine are sensitive indicators of B12 and biotin deficiencies. Without a balance of these afore mentioned B vitamins, the a-keto's cant be metabolized and end up in the urine.

    Incidently, when looking into MMA it is a form of metabolic acidosis in which I originally found the information concerning biotin treatments of 30mgs being effective.

    http://www.metametrix.com/files/lea...oratory-Evaluations-in-Molecular-Medicine.pdf

    Laurie
     
    Helen likes this.
  11. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    Hi guys, just checking in. I've been off clonazepam for about a month and a half. Definitely doing better, and I can tell that both biotin and vitamin K2 were depleted. Both made a huge difference for me. Clonazepam users will likely benefit from supplementing the nutrients it depletes.
     
  12. Rockt

    Rockt Senior Member

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    David, I recall that you supplemented biotin while you were still on clonazepam, but it stopped being effective. Do you think it's helping more now that you are off, (way to go, btw!)? What dose of biotin and vit K2 are you taking? I've actually not heard of vit K2 - I assume it and biotin are the ones most depleted by clonazepm?
     
  13. dmholmes

    dmholmes Senior Member

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    I don't have a good idea of the qualitative difference between supplementing on or off clonazepam, I wish I had more scientific results.

    My biotin, 400 mcg, is currently coming from Pure Encapsulations B-Complex Plus. I'm taking Life Extensions Super K for the K2, which has both MK-4 (1 mg) and MK-7 (100 mcg).

    I'm not sure which nutrients are most depleted by clonazepam, it will vary for individual. Certainly among those I posted earlier for benzos and anticonvulsants:
    • B vitamins (B2, B6, folate, biotin, possibly B12)
    • Vitamin D
    • Vitamin K
    • Melatonin
    • Calcium
     
  14. sueami

    sueami Senior Member

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    Just searched up biotin b/c I added it to my methylation protocol today and had a big upsurge in energy. I took 5mg. Will update in a week or three on whether the effect continues. I had a candida overgrowth diagnosed in Spring of 2013 and rosacea-like facial rash since late 2012 and both fungal overgrowth and facial rashes are correlated with biotin deficiency, so I am quite curious to see the effects of supplementing with this.
     
    Helen, PeterPositive and Gondwanaland like this.
  15. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    I have also found biotin to be helpful before I discovered I have elevated HPU/KPU, so now it makes sense.

    I discovered it by accident, switching to a different B complex that had a much higher dosage of biotin, 5mg.

    cheers
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
  16. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Also wanted to add that in a sense Biotin may help one of the final objectives of the methylation cycle, which is proper replication and transcription of DNA. It's not directly related in the sense that Biotin affects the cycle but it does it indirectly via biotinylation of histones which in turn plays a role in proper DNA function.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1226983/
     
    Helen likes this.
  17. sueami

    sueami Senior Member

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    Interesting link, Peter (though I am not science trained and am not thoroughly grokking it). I did note the lysine connection because I'd found Radio recommending it as a cofactor for biotin supplementation (and started taking it again yesterday) in posts 12 and 16 of this thread:

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-deficiency-23andme-test-btd-gene-poll.27476/

    Last night I had some good old-fashioned insomnia, one of only a handful of episodes in the last five years, which I don't necessarily regard as a negative side effect.

    I have never had sleep disruption as a symptom -- instead I am so exhausted at the end of each day that I sleep deeply for 9-10 hours, an hour or two more than I slept pre-illness. A handful of times a year, pre-illness, I'd have an insomnia episode that began around 4 am and would last til dawn.

    I could as easily consider the insomnia to be a sign of not being completely exhausted as a potentially negative side effect of the biotin. We'll see if it continues; if it does I will halve my dose of biotin.
     
    Gondwanaland likes this.
  18. sueami

    sueami Senior Member

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    So, I stopped the biotin after four days, as described in the thread below.

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...helmed-by-symptoms-after-adding-biotin.32294/

    Once my symptoms/side effects have cleared, I will restart it on a much lower level, maybe a 10th of a capsule or as close to 100 pc rda as I can get, because I do think I need it.

    The phenomenon of taking a new supplement and feeling great for a day or so then having a cascade of strong negative reactions seems common here.

    I have no science background whatsoever, but I am theorizing that in these cases, what we are taking is something we are deficient in that starts up some under-performing metabolic processes. Maybe those processes overload something downstream in the body, maybe they grind to a halt for lack of co factors, maybe those processes start a detox reaction. Whatever the mechanism, it still seems to me that it's worth pursuing, just more carefully.

    I'll report back on how I'm doing once I try to restart.
     
    Gondwanaland likes this.

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