Biofim busters disrupting beneficial bacterial communities?

[soulfeast]

I am looking up food based alternatives to biofilm busters, specifically fermented, cultured foods. Wanting to know if there are naturally occuring biofilm busters in cultiured foods.. still looking for that info..

What I did find was this article by Donna Gates of the Body Ecology Diet:

http://bodyecology.com/articles/the-truth-about-probiotic

She explains that when you consume food based probiotics, you include the biofilm that they need to establish and grow.

This makes me side in favor of food based beneficial bacteria (for now) and makes me wonder... when we take enzymes to bust up biofilm in the gut or elsewhere (sine we ingenst the enzymes), then are we also busting up the biofilm communities that hold our beneficial bacteria together?

 

[soulfeast]

Certainly not scientific but food for thought?

http://www.gapsdiet.com/FAQs.html

BIOFILMS


How do we know if the pathogens in our gut have created biofilms? If there are biofilms, do we need to do or take anything to remove those biofilms in addition to the GAPS protocol and diet or will it get rid of those biofilms?

Most (if not all) microbes form biofilms. Biofilm is simply a community of microbes which grow together or a surface and are imbedded in various substances they produce (proteins, carbohydrates, etc). Biofilms are not necessarily something bad that should be got rid off, as beneficial flora in the gut forms them too. We dont know enough about this subject yet to start taking action, particularly destructive action. Just work on improving your gut flora; as the beneficial microbes win, they will deal with the pathogens in their own way, including removing their biofilms.

Any thoughts?

 

[Sammy]

Certainly not scientific but food for thought?

http://www.gapsdiet.com/FAQs.html

BIOFILMS


How do we know if the pathogens in our gut have created biofilms? If there are biofilms, do we need to do or take anything to remove those biofilms in addition to the GAPS protocol and diet or will it get rid of those biofilms?

Most (if not all) microbes form biofilms. Biofilm is simply a community of microbes which grow together or a surface and are imbedded in various substances they produce (proteins, carbohydrates, etc). Biofilms are not necessarily something bad that should be got rid off, as beneficial flora in the gut forms them too. We dont know enough about this subject yet to start taking action, particularly destructive action. Just work on improving your gut flora; as the beneficial microbes win, they will deal with the pathogens in their own way, including removing their biofilms.

Any thoughts?

Very interesting thread, have read a fair amount of info re this subject and honestley, Im still not sure what to make of it all - much to complex and more research etc is needed.

However i do think biofilms play a part in bacterial antibiotic resistance.

 

[xchocoholic]

Thanks for posting this ...

I'm not sure what biofilm busters are tho. Are you talking about digestive enzymes ? Antibiotics ?

I've been experimenting with probiotics in various for several years. I even made Kombucha tea for awhile but didn't notice any changes good or bad. I can see how homegrown probiotics would have it's benefits but these may also cause more even problems if we accidently grow something we shouldn't be ingesting.

IMHO, just in case our bodies contain a harmful biofilms, it would be best to completely sterilize our environment before growing our own probiotics. I found scobies growing in all of my old Kombucha containers even after thorougly cleaning these.


I found this while googling. It's a chart on known biofilm health connections ..

http://www.biofilm.montana.edu/node/2412

This website also gives a great overview of biofilms .. x

PS. I've figured out that I have to keep taking probiotics daily in order to keep my digestive tract calm. I take Megaflora because it's gfcf and it says that it has 50 billion bacteria in it.

 

[Sammy]

I think he means EDTA & yeah antibiotics and enzymes(there are many they use for biofilm removal) as being "busters"

 

[xrunner]

I have used them, in conjunctions with antibiotics, for about a year and they do not affect the gut in any shape or form.
If anything the gut gets better as they allow the antibiotics to reach protected bacteria colonies which in turns gets the immune system to work better which in turns improves gut function. That's been my experience with them.

 

[Waverunner]

Cathelicidin helps to block biofilm development.