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Biofilm, antivirals, antibiotics, antifungals: the missing link in treatment?

xrunner

Senior Member
Messages
843
Location
Surrey
so is serrapeptase and natto not worth buying,
It depends on the brand. The serra brands I had tried in the past didn't work at all.
However I recently tried a Serra that was cultured from Serratia marescenes (the one used in studies) and it definitely had an anti-inflammatory effect within hours. If the label doesn't say anything about the source of the enzyme (eg. dr best), it's not worth trying.
As regards natto, I only had some results from a brand not available any longer. Here it's probably again a question of source and dosage, only at high dosage it seemed to work.
Concerning Lumbro the only brand that worked for me was Boluoke, unfortunately it was quite expensive and I only used for brief periods of time.
Of them all, Boluoke was the one that worked best for me.
how does phosphitadylcholine work synergistically with antibiotics?
No idea.
and lumbrokinase is better for biofilms and asthma/COPD?
I don't know to what extent these enzyme actually break down biofilm. What I know is that they (Boluoke esp.) did make a difference in my case. Regarding asthma and COPD I don't know, sorry, my knowledge is limited to my own experience with Lyme/Cpn.
Best wishes.
 

physicsstudent13

Senior Member
Messages
611
Location
US
Thanks I've read serra or serraflazyme might help COPD. I still can't exhale
I had a painful clotted varicose vein and on high doses of natto it has unclotted, it seems. I was taking the pipingrock brand and taking up to 14,000 units a day.
I'm taking tinidazole+rox+doxy for Lyme/CPN infection. I developed terrible asthma after a bronchitis infection. I could never get my doctor to do a bronchoscopy though
yeah Boluoke is pricey but if it helps you try hard to find a cheap source for it, or maybe a cheaper brand might be good I found some on amazon for around $40 but don't know if it's effective

how did Boluoke help by the way?

the NAC from piping rock smells fresh and sulphur, but I get the feeling that they may add fillers to their vitamins and they aren't potent
 
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frozenborderline

Senior Member
Messages
4,405
@xrunner
You may want to investigate the bioelectric effect.

The bioelectric effect is a phenomenon in which the potency of antibiotics against bacteria hiding in biofilms is increased by an amazing 100 million times when an electric current is passed through the infected region.

This paper is of interest:

Bacterial biofilms and the bioelectric effect

Here you see that a current of just 1 mA caused an incredible 8 log increase in the killing of bacteria. Note that 8 log = 100,000,000 = 100 million.

1 mA is quite a small current. Those TENS units that you can buy cheaply in pharmacies use a higher current than that (TENS units deliver a controllable electric current in the range of 1 to 80 mA). TENS units come with two or more stick-on electrode pads that you stick on your skin, and a current runs through your body between the two electrodes.

This study:

Prevention and control of bacterial infections associated with medical devices

found that an electric current density of 15 microamps per square centimeter was necessary to dramatically enhance the killing of biofilm bacteria by antibiotics.
i had lyme as my cfs trigger and am debating trying antibiotics so i'm very interested in this. How would one go about administering small amounts of current to tissues or serum and make it targeted enough to only kill bacteria?
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,824
How would one go about administering small amounts of current to tissues or serum and make it targeted enough to only kill bacteria?

You could use the galvanic bath + antibiotics method I describe in this post and this post. Obviously, only use low voltage batteries for this.

Note that this is an entirely speculative method of treating bacterial infections, as I am not aware of any studies showing clinical benefit in applying the bioelectric effect in order to kill bacteria in biofilms within the body. Most of the research is about using the bioelectric effect to kill biofilm bacteria on surgical equipment. It was my idea to apply the same technique to the body. I think it should be safe, but am not entirely certain.
 

frozenborderline

Senior Member
Messages
4,405
You could use the galvanic bath + antibiotics method I describe in this post and this post. Obviously, only use low voltage batteries for this.

Note that this is an entirely speculative method of treating bacterial infections, as I am not aware of any studies showing clinical benefit in applying the bioelectric effect in order to kill bacteria in biofilms within the body. Most of the research is about using the bioelectric effect to kill biofilm bacteria on surgical equipment. It was my idea to apply the same technique to the body. I think it should be safe, but am not entirely certain.
interesting. i'm also skeptical about taking antibiotics as naviaux thinks CFS is not due to ongoing infections and antibiotics could make cell danger response worse, but i'm trying to gather data. it seems like lyme can form biofilms and cysts so it is a tricky bug