The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Beware high dose MSM---- safe as water??

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by 2manyhobbies, Mar 10, 2018.

  1. 2manyhobbies


    This is my attempt to give back a little for all the knowledge I've gleaned here, in no way do I want or need sympathy, if this saves someone the same experience that's what I seek.

    After much research I started in on high dose MSM for it's reported anti inflammatory properties and most research you find says the LDL 50 is about like tap water. Selling product?

    Well after a few weeks of honeymoon where my skin tone was improving and muscles weren't sore after training I thought I'd found nirvana. Then I noticed I was getting a little more edgy and aggressive- sleeping a little less and thought " Hey maybe it's making more T". NOT

    Alas I continued at 8G/day divided am/pm I was always having to pee a lot and thought again maybe detox.In hindsight I was acidic and kidneys were trying to help out.

    Fast forward 6 months and a pretty serious bacterial infection and some blood work. Liver enzymes came back mildly elevated and serum Ferritin was very high while Ceruloplasm and RBC magnesium were both on the bottom end of the reference--despite supplementation with both.Low ceruloplasm/magnesium really hampers ATP production as does high ferritin levels.

    I know someone will say "hey acute phase reaction- that's all" but hsCRP was low and ferritin is still high 9 months later.

    Seems all the cysteine and methionine in MSM play a huge role in metallothionine synthesis and actively chelates copper--not good any day! Also as an side if you have a compromised gut biome there is a sulfur loving bacteria that feasts on ---sulfur(34%/MSM) creating H2S which is a toxin. Perhaps raising liver enzymes?

    Cutting to the chase and leaving out all the researching and misery I believe large doses of MSM are in no way beneficial and could be very detrimental to long term health. A month or two? Probably no problem- long term no way. As harmless as water, give me a break!

    As an aside I theorize the antiinflammatory effect stems from the moving of copper ions into the bloodstream from storage and the elevated ferritin came from the acidifying effect in the gut or suppression of calcium absorption which up regulated Fe absorption.

    I have conferred with the best of the best to arrive here and will be starting down the road of phebotomies to lower ferritin to maybe 80-100. The other parameters should fall in line eventually. Perhaps this post will raise awareness to some who are thinking or are presently taking MSM in high dosage.

    Wayne, Carl and Runner5 like this.
  2. Eiren


    IDK. I was taking around 2 teaspoons/day (that's 8g I think) for a few months and didn't notice anything, good or bad really.

    My ferrittin was low though, so if it helped bring it up, that'd be good. Haven't had the ferrittin checked recently. Really doubt it's gone too high, though. But there's been other bloodwork and it was all good, so...
  3. tinacarroll27

    tinacarroll27 Senior Member

    Thanks for information. I was just going to start MSM for inflammation but might think again. I have bad gut issues and last thing I need is H2S. I feel toxic enough. I have used MSM for joint pain in the past with good results but that was before ME relapse of 2013. Feel too weak at moment to take risk.
  4. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

    Use MSM (or DSMO which metabolizes to MSM in the blood) slowly increasing the last couple of years up to 5 g/d. All my markers (liver, kidney, ferritin,.. copper reduced from too high but still not optimal) improved.
    Wayne likes this.
  5. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

    Midwest USA
    I take organic sulfur, 2-4 teas a day, no problems.

    I was hoping it would do more for pain though...
  6. Carl

    Carl Senior Member

    United Kingdom
    Copper is needed for SOD production which might explain why I have what seems insufficient SOD despite supplementing with small amounts of copper to balance zinc supplementation while supplementing with MSM.

    I do not think that MSM contains cysteine or methionine, the only connection is that they are also sulphur amino acids.

    I do also take fairly high doses of Boron which helps with bones and pain so it might be worth looking at boron for those looking for something to help with pain.
  7. PatJ

    PatJ Forum Support Assistant

    I can't tolerate even 1/4 tsp of MSM. It lowers my already-too-low blood pressure, increases my fatigue, causes abdominal discomfort, increases my tinnitus, and increases my light and sound sensitivities.
    Wayne likes this.
  8. 2manyhobbies


    Hoping just to share something else I learned is that ceruloplasm metabolism in the liver is shut down by dosing with vitamin D- has something to do with retinal (pro vitamin A)

    I understand that the ferritin rise is the result of ceruloplasm reduction--not exactly what you want as without ceruloplasm the iron gets deposited in organs/tissue instead of hemoglobin.

    Be aware that a serum copper test is not indicative of proper copper metabolism, i.e. bound with protein as ceruloplasm which is the work horse.

    Carl you're right inline with my thinking and SOD and tyrosinase along with copper requirement in stage 4 of the ATP cycle-- it's a big deal mineral with fatigue and it needs to be bound to protein to work.

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