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Best sublingual Methyl B-12?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by TheMoonIsBlue, Jan 14, 2011.

  1. TheMoonIsBlue

    TheMoonIsBlue Senior Member

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    Anyone tested multiple brands and have an opinion?

    Jarrow Formulas, Solgar, and Source Naturals and Now Foods all have good reviews.

    Thanks!

    P.S. Any thoughts on the liquid formulas?
  2. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Moon.

    freddd, who hasn't been heard from here for quite a while, emphasized many times that he and some others had tested several brands of sublingual methyl B12, and they found that the most effective were Jarrow and Enzymatic Therapy. It's important to keep it in the dark, because light will cause it to break down. freddd recommended wrapping in foil.

    Best regards,

    Rich
  3. LaurieL

    LaurieL Senior Member

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    I noticed he has not been here in awhile, and was wondering about him. I hope nothing adverse has occured as he didn't say anything about a sabatical, or did I miss this?

    LaurieL
  4. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, LaurieL.

    I see that he has recently posted to this forum. He wrote that he has been dealing with some family-related issues. So, he's O.K.

    Rich
  5. velha508

    velha508

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    Hi Moon,

    I have to second what Rich has said - Fred had others test several brands and jarrow and enzymatic therapy were the best.

    A recent reevaluation showed that Enzymatic therapy is somewhat better, but either will do the trick.

    Velha
  6. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Velha,

    I would like to expand upon what you have said. Eight years ago I assembled a panel of 5 persons hypersensitive to the effects of methylcobalamin including myself. We tested 10 brands. One brand, Source Naturals was a total zero and we all started having return of symptoms in 3 days and massive return of symptoms in 7 days. Not one of us was willing to take it longer. I had a 3 week setback in that 1 week and we had only been taking the mb12 for 4 weeks at that point. It took me 3 weeks of the good stuff to get back to where I had been so in effect lost a full month of progress. Two brands were so superior to all the others that there really was no comparison. The other seven brands retarded return of symptoms for as long as 3 weeks but did not make any further noticeable progress, which was very rapid in those early days. On a scale from 0-100 Source Natural was ZERO and Enzymatic Therapy was 100. Jarrow was just ever so slightly less effective for me alone and would have been scored 97 on the 0-100 scale, and particularly noticeable recently as my active problems are down to sub-acute combined degeneration which is damage from prolonged deficiency. None of the others would have exceeded 25 or so on this newer scale.

    The relative effectiveness has been demonstrated by hundreds of people on various websites that have actually done their own comparisons. I really don't care which brands are best. All I am trying to do is make effectiveness more predictable and reliable for people and these top two brands are reliably effective though slightly differently. I take BOTH of them every day along with my injections for their qualitative benefits. During my periods of greatest healing I was also taking both brands because of the differences. I hope that helps.
  7. LaurieL

    LaurieL Senior Member

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    I have seen this reference before, but I haven't found where those ten brands are displayed with your evaluation scores. So, so far, I have:
    1- Enzymatic Therapy Methyl B
    2- Jarrow Methyl B
    10- Source Naturals Methyl B

    I am kinda curious as to the other seven evaluated and your evaluation scores on them. In the sense of what to avoid and when cost becomes an issue, what if any are less expensive and could be substituted for a short time.

    I found the Enzymatic Therapy brand to be only 1000mcg available versus the Jarrow at 5000 mcg. The Enzymatic Therapy being one third the cost, but less dose per tablet.

    I had no idea you thought the ET was a 100 and so could I also mix the ET with the Jarrow 5000mcg for cost considerations?

    Additionally in the last sentences of your response above, you stated taking both for their qualitative benefits and subtle differences. You did mention taking them with injections, which I am not doing. Does this statement still apply to taking both these brands without injections, and if so, could you explain these qualitative benefits and subtle differences you have seen with these two brands?

    Laurie
  8. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Laurie,

    I posted the entire list on a forum several bbs, managements and versions. The old things were left on old servers that eventually failed or were retasked to things getting more traffic. I let you know the estimates that I can remember converted to the 0-100 scale with a couple of additions and estimates based on reports of others, then I will explain a few things you ask about.

    PTS

    100 - Enzymatic Therapy Methyl B 1mg
    097 - Jarrow Methyl B 1mg, 5mg
    50-75 - estimate based on reports, not tested, Medicine Shoppe House brand 1mg sublingual mb12
    030 - Natural Sources mb12 sublingual, I forget the size
    025 - Superior B12 mb12 sublinguals, I forget the mgs
    025 - BEST Foods mb12 sublinguals, I forget the mgs
    020 - Don't remember details
    015 - Don't remember details
    015 - Don't remember details
    010 - Something or other "Dots" very shorrt contact time, dissolves too fast to be compared on a minimum 45 minute duration. What ever reason, wasn't very good.
    000 - Source Naturals Methyl B 5mg sublingual

    All sizes were at least 1mg, maximum was 5mg, a couple were 3mg. Size really did not account for differences in noticable effects.

    I was able too do a test of 6 different batches of b12 injectable prepared from 4 different batches of crystal by 2 different providers. The worst one gave me acne in 3 days and a single Enzymatic Therapy made a noticable amount of startup and I would rank that at zero. It was exposed to too much light. Some of those took a week to cause acne. They didn't work well either. I batch was at about 100, excellent effectivness, another batch about 90, another about 70, then a nosedive to about 40, but no acne, 20 with slow acne and zero with fast intense acne. I have had two different additional batches of crystal with two different inherent effectiveness ratings. Over the years I had many vials from these batches but somehow I misplaced some vials in the freezer and ended up with some as old as 18 months, which was also the best of the bunch, just as I remembered things changing each month.

    During my best years of healing, the first 2-3 years, I took at least 2 brands at all times. Of the panel of 5, I was the only one with the central damage and the only one to feel any difference at all between Enzymatic Therapy and Jarrow.
  9. sela

    sela Senior Member

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    what about the nasal spray b12? methylmate i think. to me jarrow is not cost effective because it is highly flavored and causes so much salivation that i end up chewing it and swallowing before i know i am doing it. seems like the nose stuff might be a good way for it to get into the body. any info on this??
  10. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Sela,

    I have never found anybody who has claimed that a spray has any effectiveness of healing compared to the 5 star sublinguals. Here is the problem. How do you keep quantities of liquid in sustained contact with tissues without running away? Perhaps a single light spray each 20 minutes or so, and assuming each metered spray is 1mg, 0.2ml, then you would get the time of contact by spraying a little bit fairly often. A 5mg dose is 1 ml which is about 1/5 teaspoon of liquid. It is relatively simple to retrain yourself and learn to pay attention to what you are doing. Use the retention of a sublingual under your lip without chewing it as a meditative exercise in being conscious of what you are doing.

    Doing a single sustained dose over 4 hours of 50mg of the Jarrow will result in some degree of visible urine color change by the end of the 4 hours approximately equal to a 7.5-10mg injection. You could do the same test with 50 sprays (assuming 1mg/spray) over the same time span and see if your urine becomes noticeably colored. If it does, you know that you are getting the absorbtion. You will also know after that if it is absorbing as to whether it will help heal you or not by comparing the amount of startup response to the Jarrow. If you do this test I would be very intereseted in hearing your results, whatever they are. There are a lot of people who would be interested in how well this brand and delivery system works, or not. Good luck.


    As far as cost effectiveness goes, Methyl-Mate is 24 cents per mg, Jarrow 5mg sublingual tablets costs 6 cents per mg. We have documented the absorbtion rate compared to injections in the range of 15-25% over a period of 45-120 minutes for 5 star sublinguals. Also, qualitatively, probably starting with the crystal characteristics themselves as I have found with injectable mb12, some varieties are just much better at healing than others regardless of the effectiveness of the delivery system.
  11. LaurieL

    LaurieL Senior Member

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    I very much appreciate this information and thank you for your timely response.

    Since you mention this, I am seeing a change in the color of my urine as of late. Instead of the bright, warm and fuzzy yellow color, it is now taking on a brownish yellow color. Would you explain more on "visible color change" please?

    Would you also expand a bit on "crystal characteristics" of the various Methyl B's please?

    Thank you!!

    Thanks for asking this question, as it was also one I had myself and had looked into in the past.

    Laurie
  12. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Laurie,

    it is now taking on a brownish yellow color. Would you explain more on "visible color change" please?

    ALL forms of b12 are intensely red to magenta in color depending upon the exact form of b12. It is excreted rapidly in the urine. Diluted in the urine it combines with the other items coloring urine darkening it towards the orange, brown or pinkish type colors depending upon what else is or isn't in the urine. Glutathione, in hours and for months to years afterwards, causes a person to excrete far more b12 than when a person isn't taking it and hasn't for a good while. Metafolin decreases the amount that shows up in the urine, within hours of taking Metafolin.

    Would you also expand a bit on "crystal characteristics" of the various Methyl B's please?

    Different forms of methylb12 are made by different bacteria used in commercially producing methylb12. These different forms of mb12 have somewhat different biological characteristics that are maintained even as they are processed into pills or injections or whatever form it is used in.. B12 forms crystals in a purified form, beautiful deep red to magenta crystals and is considered the most beautiful vitamin. For those working with crystals I would suspect that this "crystal of life" might be powerful for crystal work. I don't know.
  13. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    I've just had to discontinue the Jarrow sublingual mb12 after roughly 12 months as it is causing painful sensitivity in my teeth. I've resorted to SC injections for a while to give my teeth a break. I guess there is no way around this due to the acidic nature of the mb12 crystals.
  14. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Adster,

    Enzymatic Therapy mb12 is not acidic as the Jarrow is and is generally non-irritating and equally effective. It is more effective than most mb12 injectable solution because of the many problems associated with the the fragility of mb12 in solution. Mb12 crystals are not acidic. Jarrow uses citric acid as a flavoring which makes a person salivate.
  15. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    Thanks freddd. I have some here and while it's better they are still causing sensitivity. Hopefully with a month off the Jarrows and some sensitive teeth toothpaste to seal the teeth a bit I can go back to them. Thanks for all the time you spend here helping people, it's amazing. I'm very grateful :)
  16. mtnwoman

    mtnwoman

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    Quick question to Fred or others confident of their answers: Is transdermal methylcobalamin --via a cream applied to skin-- workable? Is it clearly inferior to sublingual? inferior to deep sq?

    I ask because a physician friend is inquiring. I don't see why someone would do transdermal when sublingual is available but he has some issue re holding a tablet subligually for 30+ minutes. And I think he is trying to save his patients the expense of the me12 injections.

    Also, he gives 12.5mg meb12 twice a week. From what I can gather reading here, that is overkill? and smaller doses everyday or throughout the day will penetrate the CNS better?

    thanks again,
  17. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Mtnwoman,

    I know of only ONE 5 star brand Enzymatic Therapies B12 infusion. It is reliably excellent. A couple of nominees that look pretty good by other's reviews are AOR 15mg and Medicine Shoppe 1mg house braND MeCbl.

    Injections are far less reliable as most are light damaged even befroe you get them or during giving the injection. Also perhaps 1 in 10 batches of crystal is worthwhile and the rest are poor to fair at best. The very BEST MeCbl injections I have had barely equal the ENZY brand. Unless you buy your own crystal of known excellence, mix it under deep red darkroom safelight and inject with foil covered syringe, you haven't a chance to get good and consistant injections. Daily sublingual is far superior to injectable MeCbl. The problem with transdermal is that it can't get up to that 100mcg net absobed in an hour to turn on healing and maintain it. Further that ignores entirely the dibencozide (AdoCbl), Anabol Dibencoplex which is the current 5 star AdoCbl. Each dose of ENZY 1mg costs 25 cents or so. An injection size of 5mg (1mg injected) is 1.25 instead of whatever price the doc or pharmacy charges. Mine was costing me $15/day ($5/injection plus syringe). Titration of the two AdoCbl and Mecbl in approximate equal quantities to the hold point of healing turning on (Includes l-Methylfolate) so that potassium and L-methylfolate can both be titrated to the balancing levels needed to get rid of hypokalemia symptoms, typically 2000-3000mg of potasium daily in addition to normal food amounts typically turn out to be the titrated to amount. This is on top of a general vitamin and mineral mix avoiding folic acid and folinic acid until one knows for sure how they affect a person.
    Michael likes this.
  18. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

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  19. EastWest

    EastWest

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    I'm doing injections with only an occasional ET sublingual, as I seem to need incredibly high doses of MB12 right now. I'm taking 30-35 mg injected daily, divided into 3 doses with the largest dose in the morning and tapering down on the third dose especially. Thanks to my doctor's help, my cost per month for MB12 is $50-60 plus syringes. Source is College Pharmacy. Buying 100 ml versus 50 ml bottles is cheaper. My doctor's office buys MB12 regularly so have a discount, and in order to help me out, give me their cost plus $10. Patients ordering directly from the pharmacy have to pay a lot more. Taking all ET to cover my need just doesn't make sense with cost and keeping that many pills in my mouth all day.

    I also take a lot of ADB12, 6 a day. 15 mg Deplin (folate) which I split into 4 doses. Prescription level potassium in 20 MEQ packets, taking 2 a day but some days needing 6. Acetyl-L-carnitine 1000 mg, magnesium glycinate, methionine and threonine, plus a number of other things.
  20. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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