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Best sources of retinol?? (can't convert Beta-Carotene)

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by ebethc, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    Hi -

    Any kind of particulate matter (dust, pollution, pollen, etc.) REALLY irritates my sinuses, eyes, throat & lungs.. I have a hard time concentrating, get aches & pains, fatigue. I suspect that it may be caused by (at least in part) by +/+ BCMO1 R267S. This is a gene associated w eye health, and if you have the +/+ mutation, then you have a hard time converting B-Carotene to Retinol. I believe that retinol helps the mucosa a lot, so perhaps this could help me on polluted days (like today!). Any suggestions for getting more retinol?

    thanks
     
  2. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    Eat liver, or supplement it.
     
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  3. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    @adreno - do you think cod liver oil would do the trick?
     
  4. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    It depends on how much you need. Cod liver oil doesn't contain a particularly high amount.
     
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  5. IreneF

    IreneF Senior Member

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    I read the opposite, that cod liver oil is a good source. Wonder why.
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_liver_oil

    Generally, liver is a good source. So are fish and fortified dairy products.

    You should be careful with vitamin A, because your body retains it, and it can become toxic. This does not happen with plant-based carotene (vit A precursor).
     
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  6. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    I also saw that I had a gene that meant trouble converting beta carotene. I just bought some Vitamin A. Didn't seem to make much of a difference, though.
     
  7. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    @Critterina - My doc said to eat liver ... bleccchhh! She did say that pate is fine as a more "epicurean" alternative :) I'll let you know if it helps..
     
  8. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    @ebethc ,

    I just put the Vitamin A back in my supplements for starting tomorrow. Maybe a week on and a week off until I run out will be interesting (and get the bottle out of my kitchen!)

    Thinking of liver, I was getting sick in 1986, but didn't know it, and craved liver. I had liver sausage (braunschweiger) sandwiches for lunch at least 5x/week, and mostly chicken livers 3x/week for dinner. Otherwise, about once every 5 years is good enough. When they did my bloodwork, when I got sick enough, the only abnormality for the set of symptoms I had was that I was NOT anemic! Guess my body was telling me something.

    I cut chicken livers into bite-sized pieces and cut a yellow onion up only slightly smaller. I dip in beaten egg (maybe with some milk), then dredge in a mixture of wheat flour, corn meal (1:1) with some salt, pepper, and garlic powder. Then saute in some oil until golden. If too much oil absorbs, you can drain it on paper towels. I am not much into 'fried foods' but this is the most palatable way I fix it. If you come up with something better, please post.

    Crit
     
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  9. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    @Critterina - how did you know that you were histamine intolerant? I'm very sensitive to particulate matter (pollen, pollution, dust); not sure if it's a histamine thing (no allergies) or something else.

    thanks
     
  10. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Long story. I was very sick, starting December 2011. Five rounds of antibiotics killed the infection, but I was still sick for unknown reasons. I was on a list of meds for 10 months. Then I did an elimination diet and improved somewhat, but couldn't figure out exactly what it was that caused me to be well sometimes but not others. Then, 9 months later, someone here (I need to figure out who, to give credit) pointed me to an article called "Histamine and Histamine Intolerance" in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition by Maintz and others. It's list was very close to my own. Eventually I got up the courage to test the foods that they said were low in histamine, even though I thought I reacted to them. Here are the corrections to my list:

    Good: oatmeal; bad: cinnamon (I always had them together)
    Good: fresh dairy and dairy products made with rennet; bad: fermented, cultured, or aged dairy
    Good: freshly cooked meat; bad: same meat the next day

    I remember I cried the first time I used real cream (well, half-and-half) in my coffee after none for so long.

    Reintroduction of these foods reliably made my symptoms return and removal of them caused my symptoms to abate. With this information, my allergist, who had earlier refused to test me for food allergies, reversed his decision. I was negative for the foods that cause me the most problems: Tomatoes, spinach, peppers.

    Seven months later, I consulted my pulmonologist with the article and my symptoms. My pulmonologist (my symptoms are respiratory, while most people have GI symptoms) would have done a DAO activity test, but we didn't know any labs that offered it. In the end, he said that the reintroduction/removal of the foods consistent with relapse/abatement of symptoms was enough for a diagnosis.

    I have introduced DAOsin (enzyme) at times when I was unsure, usually of a restaurant's ability to make food to my specification. It doesn't work as well as I expected. I also researched and selected some probiotics, but that hasn't had a lasting effect.

    Just this week, I've used Betaine HCl and Ox Bile with meals and Swedish Bitters once a day between meals. That is one interpretation of the second step of the 4R gut rebuilding program. (The probiotics are step 3). Maybe I'm onto something. It seems good, particularly in regard to stool consistency. I think I should really post a journal of histamine intolerance recovery, but I'm well enough now that I have lots of other things going on.

    Today I found that Trader Joe's carries several cheeses made with "microbial rennet". I asked and found that it's rennet enzyme produced by microbes (bacteria and fungi), but that the cheese itself is not exposed to the microbes. Hooray! Now there are cheeses that I can eat! They said they have 27 pages of information on cheeses and what kind of rennet or cultures they use in them in an Excel spreadsheet. The NICE fellow offered to sort the spreadsheet and print out which cheeses are made with rennet. My world is opening up!
     
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  11. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    Glad you're figuring out the puzzle! I am frustrated with my own lack of progress (especially the past week - since I've been feeling poorly..), so it makes me more hopeful to hear stories of success.

    Do you think that sensitivity to particulate matter could be a histamine thing? Quercetin & Pycgenol seems to help, but I'm no where near as functional as I need to be..
     
  12. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Could be that you're having a histamine reaction, releasing histamine. Quercetin did nothing for me. Have you invested in a good air purifier?
     
  13. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    @Critterina -- my air purifier is okay... do you recommend one? Maybe I need 2!
     
  14. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    I don't, but I was looking at them two years ago, when my dietary histamine intolerance was misunderstood as possible environmental sensitivities. My pulmonologist, since retired, recommended two of them, rather pricey, if I remember. The only one I found that I wrote down in my notes is "Winix Plasma Wave" with the word "Quieter" with an arrow. Knowing me, I probably wrote it down instead of the other one because it was also "cheaper".

    Since two years have gone by, there's no guarantee that these are still the best. I have two old Sunbeam HEPA machines (at least 20 years old) with new filters, each about 12x12x16 in (30x30x40 cm), and a Brookstone ESP appropriate for a desk workspace, that I bought on a job when the air was too bad for me to deal with. One thing I learned is that if you use a plasma machine, make sure it arrests the particles that receive the charge. Otherwise, the junk in the air bonds to the paint on the walls and anything else in the area.

    :nerd: (Nerd alert!) The plasma machines depend on electrons getting into a state described by the square root of negative one. If you're at all queasy about machines that rely on imaginary numbers to work, stick with a good HEPA machine. :nerd: (End Nerd alert.)

    A good HEPA filter on your vacuum will help, too. I like my Eureka Boss. If they still make them, they are a GREAT machine.
     
  15. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    @Critterina - thanks for the info.. i noticed on another thread that you have used butterbur... A neurologist I visited last winter recommended it for my migraines, but I never knew that it could help w histamines until I read that thread tonight. Did it help with your histamine problems? I get migraines from barometric pressure changes, and big sinus problems from pollution & pollen.. All these things are happening now, so I'm re-visiting the butterbur idea.... I just took 100 mg, but I know that it takes some time to work, so it may not help me tonight.

    thanks
     
  16. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    @ebethc,

    Would you point me to that thread? I don't remember using butterbur. Sounds good, though.

    Critterina
     
  17. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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  18. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Oh, you confused me with @Star-Anise ...I'll take the compliment! :angel:

    Interesting thread. I don't seem to have that histamine release reaction, but react to dietary histamines. I'm doing the gut rebuilding just now. We'll see how it goes. Funny how things change with time, as described in that thread. They sure do!
     
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  19. Bryce74

    Bryce74

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    I'd be very careful with Quercetin, I came across a study that showed it causes cancers in rats.
    I tried it for allergies too, it seems to work a little bit against them, but it's not worth the possible cancer risk.

    Did you get a blood test to measure vitamin A? That would be way more reliable than drawing conclusions from unreliable gene tests.

    Taking too much vitamin A can cause osteoporosis, even at a doses as low as 5000 IU a day.
     
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  20. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    I've replaced quercetin w/ mangosteen. I also use rutin. When I have a histamine reaction, rutin works almost immediately.
     
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